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More Disappointments...
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Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 4:47 pm    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

Well, you want to keep it going, so...

The problem is the murder rate. As mentioned many times, criminals will be able to get guns.

But for those heat-of-passion bouts where someone is killed? If guns weren't available, they'd just use something else. Blunt objects accounted for 15% of all homicides in the U.S. the year of my earlier statistics. "Bare Hands" accounted for either 15% or 20% of all homicides. If a person wants to kill another person, there's plenty of ways.

Gof80s:

I would take you in a hand-to-hand fight anyday. But if you're coming after me with a crowbar,knife, or hammer, I feel quite justified in wanting a gun. I shouldn't be required to be an expert in using any and all tools as deadly objects. That burden should fall on someone wanting to do harm to another person without cause.

But it goes back again to what I've been saying all along:

Self-defense isn't the only reason, in fact it isn't even the main reason, why I believe in guns. Actually, I don't even have a gun for self-defense where I live. The pistols I keep in my room stay unloaded without ammunition nearby, and the rifles and shotgun are stored in combination lock safe. So self-defense isn't my reason for wanting guns. But I think that people who do need them for that purpose should be able to have them. And the people who wrote our Constitution seemed to agree with me.
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MartinPopoffSucks



Joined: 22 Sep 2000
Posts: 104
Location: las vegas, nv

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 4:58 pm    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

raider - are you a champion kickboxer??? a title-winning boxer? are you stone cold steve austin?? perhaps Bruce Lee reincarnated??
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Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 5:37 pm    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

???? What does that have to do with the topic????

But since I know that MPS is reading this thread, and it's hopelessly gone as far as metal content goes, I guess this would be a good place to say something:

Listen, you little piece of $hit, I don't know and I don't care if you're just another Gof80s screen name or an entirely different person. You haven't been worth **** on this board. All you've done is run off members who are knowledgable about metal and pretty damn good at making interesting posts. I have yet to see you talk about metal. Have I missed something? If so, point it out, cause all I've seen you do is bash metal fans and throw around phrases that sound like they're coming right out of the mouth of some rapper. Now I sure as hell ain't gonna leave because of you, but I guess I won't be posting much if everyone else is gone. But it doesn't matter to me, I've got other boards I've been visiting all along. But for those who only hang out here, you've just managed to ruin a perfectly good metal board. But that was your point all along, wasn't it?
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Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:56 pm    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

And you do nothing to prove me wrong with that post.

Even on your "Now for some Real Metal" post, one important thing is missing: any mention of metal!

But your posts seem very familiar, and no I don't mean Gof80s......
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Starbreaker



Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 385
Location: BFI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:26 pm    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

Gee, Ive been missing a huge thread on my hot topic...

GO80s, Prepare to lose your 'respect' for me...

I am probably the most 'pro-gun' person that has ever lived, judging from the reactions I get on a daily basis. Although I own a mere two guns (both considered 'assault rifles' by leftist wackos), I am somewhere to the right of the NRA on the issue (life member, BTW)

I can find nothing to dispute in Ripper's, Raider's or the other pro-gun posts. (where were you guys, when DTFM was making the same points, as these guys???)

As for the 'pus*y' argument, read Heathermetal's post (she's female, she has a gun). SO...since I can easily beat the hell out of the average 120lb woman (I'm 6'2", 250), she would deserve to have no self-defense, 'cause she's a 'pus*y, 'coward', or whatever'??? Yeah right.
What about handicapped people??? (easy prey, I guess..in your preferred world)

As I've posted before, any of you guys, who think you're such a 'bad ass' that "you don't need no pus*y gun" (truly the real 'macho, redneck BS attitude), look at the prison population. I am sure there's literally thousands of guys (animals?) in prison, who would rule your life if they met you.

Viciousness counts for alot in a fist fight. More cerebral factors reign, if BOTH parties are armed. Without weapons, you truly have the 'law of the jungle'...weapons (a product of intelligence) are what truly elevated man above animals. (physically, which was necessary for the other factors to happen)

Depp,
Does not Switzerland, which requires a gun, in every house (as the people are ALL members of the militia), also have an infinitesimal crime rate?? Presence of guns, does NOT increase crime rate!!

What's the population of Sweden, now? Last time I saw any stats, you had the highest emmigration rate, in Europe (admittedly, this was in the eighties)...and coincidentally, the most liberal (intrusively powerful) government. Not suprisingly, the people who were fleeing, were overwhelmingly, the more educated and talented, who could make a better life for themselves, elsewhere. (ie. They didn't like paying for the free ride, you boast of when you say..."people are taken care of--they don't need health insurance") The point: Sweden is a welfare state, not the paradise that you pretend. However, I would be happy to send you, all the people, who would like to make US more liberal...

All of you guys from the 'liberal-paradises'...aren't your government-run programs a laughingstock?? I can remember Benny Hill, making fun of the socialized medicine, in Britain as far back as the early 80s (70s?), at least. From the stories I've read, Canada is not much better.

Why do people, who can afford it, travel from around the world, to have operations in America? Because the goverment-run health entities in those countries are a joke!!! (BTW in England, I believe, there are private hospitals, where the rich can go for 'real' treatment)

So, please quit with the America-bashing, and looking down on us...w/o 'backward' America, most of you would be in chains. (And, yes ALL the contries in Europe, are MORE FASCIST, than America, which is the 'free-est' country in the world, bar none.)

The reason we have the second ammendment, has nothing to do with 'muskets', hunting, self-defense, etc. It is there, to protect the citizenry from tyrranical government. It is the 'ultimate 'check' in the system of 'checks and balances', and, as such, it is timeless...

PS: Before any weenie brings up the "you can't fight the government..they've got nukes" non-argument, learn some history. In every revolution, that has ever succeeded, the overthrown government, has had superior weaponry. Also, present that ridiculous argument, to the Viet Namese..who arguably turned back the US Military (who, btw, had absolutley no compunction against destroying their infrastructure)

FWIW: I think I prefer this sort of debate, to the trite, mutual butt-kissing festivals, embodied in some posts...confrontation stirs the brain.

PPS: To all: Please stop calling for people, who disagree with you, or who you find unpalatable, to be banned. That is censorship, plain and simple. (banning the RQ, simply 'cause you think she's nuts (is that a crime) would have been, at best, cruel)


[This message has been edited by Starbreaker (edited 09-27-2000).]
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Sylvyr



Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 2
Location: GA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:47 am    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

Amen Starbreaker!

*claps*

I'm a friend of Ripper's and have been reading this board at his suggestion and found this thread to be quite interesting (and it inspired this post)

I am a gun owner and an American.

I noticed that *no one* had yet to mention, *until now*, the MOST important reason for the Second Amendment.

"to protect against a tyrannical government"

I believe it was Jefferson.

For those interested in learning more about this concept and why it is so important, I suggest reading The Federalist Papers. (the above quote is from The Federalist Papers)
Within them you will find the ideas and reasons upon which the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written, in case you are unclear as to why those who wrote them believed certain rights and freedoms are "inalienable".

"Inalienable rights", as Ripper touched on, means that they are not "given" to man by *any* government, but are equal rights that all humans have, by nature of their existence. The government's role is to protect these rights.

For those interested in learning more, I would also suggest studying history. Specifically the events preceding WWII in Germany and the actions that made possible the murder of over 10 million people.
Note that these people did not have guns; guns were confiscated years earlier.
It was no coincidence. Firearm confiscation, much like the Nazi propaganda was a planned step along the road to total control over the minds and actions of the people of Germany, and thus the deaths of millions of them.


[This message has been edited by Sylvyr (edited 09-28-2000).]
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Depp



Joined: 30 Nov 1998
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 3:21 am    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

Funny how noone can explain why US has so many deaths by handguns. Sure point to other countries, Brazil, which isnīt a democracy in real sense.
And people with money will always want better stuff than the rest, there is private hostitals in sweden as well for those who wonīt stand in line for public healthcare.

And the reason people leave sweden is to work in other countries (make more money in most) and later return.

People with money will like america, since everything is for sale there.

Funny you should mention Switzerland, which is sort on a different country than most. They are NOT required to have guns in their home, but the 400 000 soldiers of the army are required to do so, not the rest.
But Switzerland doesn allow immigration, ainīt part of the UN etc and are neutral to everything except themselves.
They also have a direct democracy, where the people vote directly in most decisions, whereas americans mostly donīt even vote.
And Switzerland is a welfare country more than any so...
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GODOF80S
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 3:29 am    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

Starbreaker - we will have to agree to disagree with political matters. On a musical basis we ride the same wave but in my opinion America is one of the most corrupt nations in the world and definitely has the laziest , fattest , greediest , most materialistic people in the world + highest crime rates , most melting pot(yes thats IS ruining this country) and an abysmal moral value code. I'm sorry man but America is one of the crappiest countries in the world and i am one of the least partiotic individuals that live here.
I have lived in other countries and MUCH preferred the safeness(is that a word?) and atmosphere of all of them. And there isn't this we're #1 ego drooling from their mouths.
Not only that but America is embraced the black culture so much since 1963 that my daughter doesn't learn about REAL history any more and i feel it is destroying this country piece by piece. (that is not a racist comment - it is what i believe to be true)- she doesn't learn about Europe - instead she learns about "famous" people like George Washington Carver (an African-American who invented PEANUT BUTTER!!!! WHO CARES??????). This country was founded upon slaveowners who wanted to be free!!??!!??
How hypocritical and 2 faced is that??

Anyhow i don't want to get another 100 posts attached to this thread so Starbreaker let's just talk about music cuz at least we both recognize quality talent when we hear it.

You like the USA - i USE the USA. Simple.
Let's knock the Anti / Pro gun issue on the head and talk killer 80's Metal....
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Depp



Joined: 30 Nov 1998
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:58 am    Post subject: More Disappointments... Reply with quote

And if you have such great freedom in the US, how come the FBI and CIA can get into your personal life more than any over here...
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