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The evolution of metal

 
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Zej



Joined: 11 Sep 2000
Posts: 371
Location: Tierra de la Tortilla

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 7:31 pm    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Based on what I read everywhere, I kinda find myself a bit confused.

On one hand, we want our bands to keep churning out metal, REAL metal, with the solos, the intros, the drum fills, the bass grooves, the vocal acrobatics, the dual-guitar attack, the riffs and no wimpy ballads (mellow rockers or thoughtful slow-paced moody tunes only, thank you very much). Screw Metallica for taking that direction, d.amn Megadeth for trying this way, death to Savatage for mellowing out, and God is Judas Priest's album gonna suck, and oh lord how low has Black Sabbath fallen. Gimme my riffs, my loud guitars and fast cars and wild livin' (heh). Metal or bust!

On the other hand, we complain that they're doing the same old stuff, that they need to reinvent themselves, they're rehashing their older stuff, they seriously need a makeover, they're musicians, for crying out loud, not mathematicians, so chaning things around every once in a while is an absolute must. If they can't come up with an original tune then how lame is that? How many times will Eddie Van Halen play the same fukkin' solo? How many times will Mötley Crüe play their same hits, over and over? Why won't Poison change their setlist? Can't they put out a new album? Can't they evolve, adapt? Are they musical dinosaurs?

So which is it? How do we find balance between these two opposing postures? We either want them to evolve, or we want them to be stuck. Where is the middle ground?

Now, many may claim how some bands have not changed yet they keep putting out great music, and any examples are valid.

Yet I'm talking about all the other bands, those that we criticize for changing, and those that we criticize for NOT changing. Is it, per chance, that they have a limited fountain of creativity? Is it evidence of minimal talent? Does it prove that our heroes *GASP* suck?

If we pigeonhole them, yet demand them to open up, aren't we contradicting ourselves?

I dunno. The subject intrigues me.

BTW, I think Metallica, after the black album, are quite bad. And Megadeth, although not the same as they used to be, I find 'em pretty good.
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nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 9:55 pm    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Well Ive wondered the samething many times.
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 11:28 pm    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

EVERYONE has a limited reservoir of creativity. Nobody can stay relevant indefinitely; sooner or (if you're good) later, you're going to basically cannibalize your own goods.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. There are bands I won't mind hearing the "same album" from another dozen times, simply because they're either the best in their field, or maybe the only ones in their field.

But progress is always better than stagnation.
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Itlives



Joined: 17 Oct 2000
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 3:18 am    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Overkill for example..i read an interview with Bliz were he said Overkill as a band are quite comfortable treading all around the musical block.While they wander they always return to the core..without going into those "bad"neighborhoods.Or as DLR says..."we'll take those left hand turns now and then".
NP.The Phantom Opera Ghost-Iced Earth
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ImpaleVlad



Joined: 25 Aug 2000
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 5:53 am    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Actually T-Hare, regarding progress always being better that stagnation, I have to disagree(easy to disagree with an absolute). If you look at it in parallel with the world, where is progress getting us? It's getting us to a point where we're gonna burn this planet out. Perhaps, this could happen to bands who try to change all the time. Progress doesn't have to always happen within a band. It can come from a band influenced by a number of other bands, drawing from their styles, yet evolving into a new one. That's progress, right? That way we could listen to our favorite bands in ignorant bliss, never knowing that they could or wanted to play anything different than what we grew to love. Sound good?
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General Zod



Joined: 24 Jan 2001
Posts: 2519
Location: Krypton

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:10 am    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Zej-

Good post. I think it comes down to two schools of thought:

School 1 - There are those of us who don't want change. We want Painkiller 2, Painkiller 3, Painkiller 4, etc. We don't want our kick ass metal bands goofing off with guitar synthesizers and keyboards (in those bands who have never made use of keys). We don't Bruce Dickinson to rap, and we don't want to see Ozzy dressed in baggy pants. We want our metal server on a hot, shiny plate, the way we have come to expect it.

School 2 - There are those of us who are fine with change, as long as it is GOOD change. Amorphis is the ideal example of this. They went from death metal, to metal's version of Pink Floyd. School 1 heard "Tuonella" and said, "These guys sold out, and turned their back on us." School 2 said, "Wow. This is pretty cool."

GZ
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The Sledge



Joined: 14 Jun 2000
Posts: 366
Location: CT, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:21 am    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

I make this debate all the time. Ecspecially when I hear bands like Sabbath, Kiss, etc getting together for another go at it.

Generally speaking, I don't think bands have the creativity to get them back to the legendary and/or respective status that they've earned. I understand that it's about playing (together) that's gives them the reason, but why not do it under a different name so that their legacy will remain untarnished? IMO, once a band is broken up for an extended period of time, then that's where that band should stay...in the past. The momentum is gone. How can a 50 year old retrieve the youthful edge they once had? They can't!! It's an entirely different mindset.

But there is one exception...if a band has/had song that they have written in "their prime" but never recorded them.

Pentagram is one of those bands. They started out in '71. Released 4 7"s in the decade. Their first full length?...1984! Their next '87. The albums are very respected in the underground HM community. But the thing that's the topper?...MOST of the songs were written in the 70s! An LP of songs that are 10 years old but are fresh, fit well in the times and minds of Metalheads and packs a wicked punch. But it doesn't stop there! They released another in 94. A great album considering they are up there in age. But it still has that edge? Why?...they used songs that were written 20 years prior to!

In short, IMO, the only way to keep that balance of young meets old is to write as many song in their prime, but don't record them all. Leave them for when they are older. Young songs played with maturity I think is an excellent combination!!


NP: nothing
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Subtraction



Joined: 10 Feb 2001
Posts: 631
Location: Corpus Christi, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 3:32 pm    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Oh man I can't tell you how long I have been waiting for someone to realize this. I havn't started anything about it because no one ever listens to me. Everytime I mention something along the lines of "don't you guys realize how contradictory you sound" people seem to skip my post. Maybe because people think I am a dumb girl, not that can't be it because people never think I am a girl on here until I say it.

This is one thing I hate about metal fans, no not metal fans, PEOPLE! People contradict themselves left and right and never realize it. And I can't say that I am not guilty of it, but I try very hard not to. There are so many things that have been said on this board by people that are so contradictory I can't stand it! (and my bad spelling probably makes people want to kill themselves!)
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The Merchant of Venus



Joined: 19 Jul 2000
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:34 am    Post subject: The evolution of metal Reply with quote

Great post!

I'm with Zej, Sledge and Subtraction on this. And it's not just on new albums or songs. Take the last Maiden Tour for instance. People complained about the fact that the set list was heavy on Brave New World material. Why wouldn't it be? They had a new album (which is excellent, by the way) that they want you to buy so that they can make more music. This happens so often. As "great fans" of these bands, we go to see them run through a set list of Greatest Hits and stare blankly at the stage when they play anything released after 1994, in most cases.

When these reunions take place, most people's expectations are so unrealistic, they can't help but set themselves up for disappointment. I just can't understand it. I mean it really is a moment of magic when a [i]High 'n Dry[/i], a [i]Shout At The Devil[/i], a [i]Master of Puppets[/i], etc. is created. Now these bands are 15 years older, more successful, married with families in some cases. I mean, look how much you've changed over that same amount of time. Also, look at what you were doing during the times you listened to that music. That may have the biggest impact on how we percive certain albums. How can I really have the same memories with Maiden? Keg party in the sand pit listening to [i]Live After Death[/i] vs. washing the SUV listening to [i]Brave New World[/i]? Listening to [i]Invasion Of Your Privacy[/i] on my bike at four in the morning riding home from my girlfriend's vs. listening to latest self titled Ratt on a plane home from a business trip? What we expect from these bands is ridiculous, and to complain or to not even support them is shameful.
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