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Lame post of the week
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Ungodly



Joined: 19 Sep 2001
Posts: 197
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 8:57 am    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

Well said Raider. I concur.

If someone doesn't listen to a band because of the vocals, they are really doing themselves a great injustice. If you call yourself a music fan you have to base your opinion on more than just vocals. The music behind the vocals is what is worth listening to whether you like the vox or not.

Example: These are a few of the cds/bands I have checked out just since I've been visiting this board.I'm probably gonna get some flack for this but these bands I either don't care for the vox or totally loathe the vox, but it does not keep me from listening to it.

Nevermore: I seen these guys open for Mercyful Fate one time and I really got into the music but the singer was extremly annoying. After hearing everyone in here talk about them I went and picked up "Dead Heart In A Dead World" and as you guys said, the musicians in this band are great, very groove oriented. I love the music but I cannot stand Dane's vocals. I remember one person in hear saying that he sings in 7 diff. octaves. That might be true but I don't think he realizes it. This dude vocals IMO totally suck but I listen to this cd everyday because I love the music.

Grave Digger: "Grave Digger" again love the music but hate the vocals. But I still listen to it. I overlook the vocals and get to what really makes a band. The musicians in this band are great, very talented.

Iced Earth: "Horror Show" yes this is my first IE cd to hear (I am a death metal fan). This cd is totally awsome and I appreciate everyone here turning me on to them. The music is great and well put together and after quite a few listenings Barlow's voice is growing on me but, this guy sounds so much like Paul Stanley (IMO) that it is sickening. When he sings very low stuff he sounds like Geoff Tate (i.e. "Dracula") even my wife when she heard it for the first time she said "Wow I never knew Kiss had such a heavy cd." It just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

If someone changes the station or decides not to listen to a band because of the vocals, you are selling yourself short, there is just so much more to it than that.
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EdwardTHead



Joined: 17 May 2000
Posts: 576
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:07 am    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

There is a lot more to music than just lyrics, BUT vocals are an instrument. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that before. I stay away from the growling vocals because usually it doesn't fit IMO, but someone must think it does since there are so many bands that use them.

I still don't get it. I bought an Opal CD a few months ago. I was getting into it until he started singing. I don't think I've ever listened to the whole thing even though I've tried. It sounded like Frakenstein's monster running through a field of singing birds or something, just didn't fit.

I've found the same true of lots of bands, some instrument just doesn't fit and usually it's the vocals. I guess it's like keyboards for some people.
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Subtraction



Joined: 10 Feb 2001
Posts: 631
Location: Corpus Christi, TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:30 am    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

Maybe using death vocals is like using a distorted guitar? I don't know, but I kind of have a small thing for death vocals. Maybe it was because I got started on the whole death metal vocal thing with Morbid Angel in 8th grade catholic school hehe. But I guess I just have a soft spot for them, though I really can't explain why people use them except that they are harsh and add, I suppose, to the overall heaviness or distortion used in a song.
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Desslar



Joined: 11 Jul 2001
Posts: 776
Location: Bloomington, IN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:46 pm    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Raider:
Actually many of the people who do death growls can sing. But normal singing just doesn't fit with the music on a constant basis. These vocals just fit. Just as Halford and Bruce don't use normal singing voices in their music, death and black metal bands don't use normal singing either. And make no mistake, Halford and Bruce don't use normal singing. Compare them to rock or pop singers. Much louder and more extreme. Fans of pop, rap, and really many rock fans find them unlistenable. In fact, as I've pointed out before, the complaints pop fans make about Dickinson, Halford, and Dio almost perfectly mirror the complaints people on this board make about death vox. Face it, those people aren't normal singers, and are unlistenable to anyone but fans of them. But they are good at what they do. Same with the ones who do death or black vox.

And who cares about lyrics. There's about three bands in the world with lyrics really worth hearing. For metal, vocals are just another instrument. That's one thing that makes metal superior to pop. With pop, it's just about lyrics that people can relate to sung by an attractive singer with some danceable beat in the background. Metal is about good music, and the vocals are just one part of that. It's much more important they be an instrument that fits the music than be done in an inappropriate way just so people can understand the lyrics.

I'm afraid I don't follow at all. Halford and Dickinson are far closer to what one might ordinarily define as singing than any death metal vocal I've heard, and sound like they're using their normal voices. Admittedly, Halford does see fit to try to annoy neighborhood dogs with a silly high-pitched yelp every now and then, but for the most part he keeps it real. Mariah Carey does a lot more in the way of extreme vocals than either of them. As to what kind of vocals are most appropriate for certain kinds of metal, well, I fail to see how having say, Dickinson, sing for In Flames would take away from the presentation.

The whole lyrics argument really confuses me. Lyrics are the be all and end all of pop music? So how does Nsync sell any records????? Many pop songs become hits just on the basis of being fun or danceable or having an attractive singer or a cool video. I personally think lyrics are rather important to metal. I don't mind too much if they're deep or cheesy, as long as they're cool.

I certainly don't think metal singers should try to perfectly enunciate every last syllable (Brian Johnson rules!), but trying to knock off Cookie Monster (oops, I said it!) doesn't really seem necessary either. Can you imagine if Elmo-like vocals became the next big thing?

Obviously no one is going to "win" this debate, subjective as it is, but it still makes for a fun discussion.
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PaulEMoz



Joined: 24 Oct 2000
Posts: 843
Location: Newcastle, England...now in Detroit, MI, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:55 pm    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

Obviously different people like different things, but I just cannot listen to music when I don't like the vocals. There have been occasions where I've really wanted to like something, and after repeated listening, the vocals have grown on me, but I absolutely cannot stand to listen to growled or shouted vocals. There are other bands where I just don't like the singer's voice, Stratovarius being an example (sorry, just doesn't work for me), but honestly, the growlers will never win me over. Don't say "Oh, but you're missing out on so much", I may well be, and I have often said there is some fantastic music but the vocals just totally ruin it. Shouldn't the vocals be a part of the music? You shouldn't have to try and block out the sh*tty vocals to hear the good stuff. I realise that I am limiting myself, but I just can't stand that style of singing, which is a shame, coz like I've said, the music often sounds excellent!!
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Midnight Sun



Joined: 02 Aug 1999
Posts: 1759

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:23 pm    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

I like Dane's vocals but have been told when playing songs like the Heart Collector/Believe In Nothing that he sounds like a second rate Geoff Tate(!).

Cookie Monster vocals: Don't do anything for me because they are not new nor innovative. Grave Digger perfected the UDO growl in 1984 with the release of Heavy Metal Breakdown.
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 3:23 am    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

My two cents - while of course grind vox are of limited usefulness, they're hardly without any usefulness at all.

As I've said before, for me, the metal I'm most grateful for is the music of terror. But how many clean singers can really convey that? One, that's how many, and that's Warrell Dane.

(Tom Araya can do it, but his tuneless shouting renders his status as a "clean" singer kind of iffy. And Bruce Dickinson could probably do it if Steve could write music intense enough to let him, and I know better than to think that'll ever happen.)

Would I really want to hear Dissection's "Night's Blood" with Russell Allen on vocals? Would I want to hear Kataklysm's "Il Diavolo In Me" sung by Jorn Londe? Would I want to hear Kamelot's Elizabeth Bathory trilogy sung by Roy Khan? Okay, never mind that last one.

Yeah, the screamers and growlers are, generally speaking, never going to distinguish themselves as vocalists the way the real singers do. But they do what's required to enhance the experience.

Maybe "Night's Blood" would be even better with the right kind of real singing...but there's only so much Warrell to go around.

As for the comprehensibility factor - if the lyrics are good enough, I like a well-enunciating grind vocalist, like Dan Swano. Otherwise, I like being able to make out certain passages and words more clearly than others.
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OverMuch



Joined: 27 Feb 1999
Posts: 846
Location: Seattle, Washington USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:11 pm    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

I am SO in agreement about growling vocals...then I heard "Bullet Ride."

Well, finally...FINALLY...I've been able to get into In Flames.

I downloaded some other tracks from the album...and RAN out to buy "Clayman."

Wow. Great album. I'm really getting into this band.

Looking damn forward to seeing them with Iced Earth when they (finally...FINALLY) hit Seattle. Woo!
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SGR_32



Joined: 26 Mar 2001
Posts: 439
Location: Hoquiam, WA. USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:37 am    Post subject: Lame post of the week Reply with quote

For me, Black metal and Death Metal vocals are a added instrument in the music for me. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. But what gets me is when people wont give a band a chance based totally on the vocals alone. I may be different, but that to me is just like saying i dont like
such and such band cause the drummer only uses a single base, and thats so lame. Or saying
I dont care for this band cause they only have one guitar, and thats a waste of time, or this band has two guitars, and any true band only needs one. I love Black metal, but the true great bands are dwarfed by the totally terrable bands 5 to 1. Death metal is even worse 10 to 1 if not more. But those 1's are some of the best bands in ANY catagory of Metal, You dont like In Flames, maybe you will like soilwork, you dont like Soilwork, maybe you will like Dark Traquility.
You dont like Mayhem, maybe you will like Dimmu Borgir (seeing them for the very first time on the 16th) WOOOOHOOOOO , but if you dont like Dimmu, maybe you would like Cradle of Filth.
Just seems like a waste to throw a whole group of bands in your "not to listen to stack" just cause you didnt have a good listen with one of them.
Kinda like not liking beer cause you didnt like the first one you drank. Or not liking a whole city cause of one guy you know from that place.

Just my two cents [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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