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If metal was massively popular...
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LEV1ATHAN



Joined: 05 Apr 2000
Posts: 419
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 3:51 pm    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

I just read this whole thread... I think I follow you GZ... although I hate to, I agree with you. Why do I hate that? Simple, because I liked a lot of music in the 80's; however, today, when I find a new band I like, I find I am more excited about new releases by them than I was at an equal point in the 80's. Each of you make very strong points here, but I would have to say that I agree with GZ's perspective.

An example of what I think GZ is trying to say is: When I first heard Dokken back in 1983 (i think), I fell in love with thier sound. The first song I heard by them was "Paris Is Burning (live in Paris)". That was the last track on the "Breaking The Chains" album. With the release of thier next album, "Tooth And Nail", came the videos on MTV and lots of FM radio play. This was Dokken's best album, and afterwards their sound would never be the same. Each album after "Tooth And Nail" had much less "fire", and got downright cold with the release of "Shadow Life" in 1997. This was the lowest point in Dokken's history because this album was a direct attempt to "stay with the times". It was a completely different sound for them. A bit of irony is that in 1996, Metallica's "Load" was released. See where I am going here?

On the other hand, there is a big difference between the paths that Dokken and Metallica each took after this. Metallica kept getting worst. Dokken, however, learned from "Shadow Life" that all they had was the fans that have stuck with them from the beginning. They went back to the "Dokken" sound (with some mature differences of course) and sold many more albums; not to mention gaining back the respect of all thier "original" fans. Most kids today would not like Dokken no matter what they played, and I think maybe Dokken decided this after the crash and burn of "Shadow Life".

Sorry, I took this a bit further than I meant to. Point is, and I still use Dokken as an example here, Dokken were pretty much born in the 80's, and slowly drifted downward until thier ultimate impact with "Shadow Life". Me, being a fan of Dokken, was less excited with each new release they put out in the 80's. But now that they have gotten thier sound right again, I am eager to hear what is next. Thier music of today is much better than thier music of yesterday, and they are far from seeing any limelight or MTV (or FM radio) airtime.
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MadMetalPoet



Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 27
Location: Maryland USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 4:04 pm    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

Hey guys, I've been following your posts and I agree with alot of what you're saying. I think
your 80's metal golden age is dead on as far as the commerical decadence effecting bands releases.
But what about the 70's? alot of the 80's metal acts started in the 70's. Priest, scorpions, dio/rainbow, ac/dc, triumph, nazareth, to name some. and they worked their magic in the mid-to late 70's, when pop rock and the dreaded disco ruled. especially in the USA. They had a big underground following, as they built upon the groundwork of sabbath, purple, and zeppelin.
What I'm trying to say is that metal comes and goes in cycles, underground and into the light, and back again. Some bands jam and die in obscurity, while others become huge. I believe the 80's metal madness was great time. Nowadays,
say 97-, Metal is again climbing up towards the light of huge acceptance, the only place not joining onto the band wagon is the USA, which always jumps from one music to another every 5 years or so. This saddens me as I've been a huge metalhead throughout. I do my part to turn people onto the great euro bands, and the new american ones. Sometimes I wish I had the bucks to move overseas, so I could see the great Wacken fests
on something other than my VCR. The rest of the world seems to give all types of music a fair
shake, unlike home. So when Iced earth comes to a little club near me, I thank those guys for thinkin of the underground fans here in the USA.

They could make much more touring europe again,
but instead they come here and give their all
for 2 or 3 hundred people. Metal is our classical music guys, in 200 years maybe metal bands will
be reveared like bach or mozart, as being ahead of their time.

take care, metal forever.....madmetalpoet.
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iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:46 pm    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

Yes,Maiden has had at least two platinum albums and about six gold albums,but those albums weren't runaway smashes and/or yield any top 40 singles.The longest a Maiden album remained in the top 40 was 18 weeks(the album was Somewhere In Time). None of Maiden's albums made to the top 10(the closest was Somewhere In Time,which made it to #11),and I don't think Maiden has had a gold record since No Prayer For The Dying(I think Brave New World sold about 300,000 copies,but I'm not sure).Maiden's album sales came over longer periods of time than Bob Jovi's(Bon Jovi has seen almost all of their albums go multi-platinum,and Slippery When Wet has sold at least 10 million copies.They also have had around 8 top ten singles).Maiden achieved their success primarliy from touring and word of mouth. They were rarely or never on top 40 radio,and were on MTV,but their videos were not in heavy rotation. Bob Jovi's sales came like a tidal wave. At least 5 of their records debuted in the top 10,and their videos were shown non-stop.Yes,Maiden has had some major label success,but Bon Jovi were far more popular. Maiden has had number one albums in the U.K.,but they didn't stay there for long.Plus, Bon Jovi were hot from the beginning(even their first outing parented a top 40 hit in "Runaway"). Maiden didn't have a top 40 album until record #3, The Number Of The Beast(it made the top 40 for 5 weeks,topping out at #33 and eventually went platinum),and they have never had a single make it to the top 40.Maiden doesn't write songs designed for radio airplay,Bon Jovi does because their high sales set a precedent.Maybe I should have used Nevermore as an example instead,but I still think that if Maiden had a single make the top 5 or an album do multi-platinum sales,they probably would at least been pressured to sound more commercial.
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AngelWitch73



Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 163
Location: Bayern

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:42 pm    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by General Zod:
Well, laugh all you wish, but I think it's a valid point. Personally, I'd prefer better music to better videos. GZ[/QB]

Yup... same here.
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iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 11:06 pm    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

I dont' think most of the quality metal will ever gain mainstream popularity. It's over most people's heads. I don't think I want my favorite bands becoming household names. Look at what happened to Metallica once they got a taste of popularity. I don't think its always the fault of the bands either. Record companies worry about their bottom line and want bands to have mass appeal,so they pressure them to perform and write songs that can be edible for radio listeners. Most people aren't serious about music. They just listen to music as background noise while they are working,driving, or partying.If they did have a passion for music,they'd find the top 40 unbearable.Metal often alienates people because its loud,aggressive,and more often than not,it is played too well. The reason Metallica's "Black" album did so well was beacause they dumbed down their songs,making them simpler and more universal.Most of the best artists in all genres aren't the most popular. When I tell people I'm a metal fan,they assume I'm into Creed. Then I rattle off names like Nevermore,Blind Guardian,and In Flames,and I get blank stares. I know a guy who is really into country/western music. When I told him he probably liked Garth Brooks,he laughed and mentioned all kinds or artists I had never heard of, that,in his mind,were far better.Jazz and classical albums rarely make the top of the charts,but those genres are still going. Look,I'd love to see Iron Maiden(my all-time favorite band)have a number 1 album in the states,but I think their next record would sound like Bon Jovi. Also,the general public is fickle. They lose interest in artists quickly. Look at Vanilla Ice(sorry for bringing him up here),his debut sold at least 10 million copies,but after about a year,he couldn't get arrested.
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daeh_latem



Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 108
Location: Reno

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 12:53 am    Post subject: If metal was massively popular... Reply with quote

I just want to give my opinion. Everyone has there own views and they are all right in a way. But my view is this.
I am a fan of Metallica's music, less and less of the band, except Newsted. I would rather here Metallica's sellout than cRap Rock.
I beleive the 80's pop metal bands actually created an opportunity for rock to evolve into its present state. WHY?
I will risk saying KISS helped move Rock n Roll crowds to glam and hair. Bands move to a pop metal to touch on the mainstream, incorporating makepup and hair to ensure recognition. The door to ROCK as a wide genre is open. So the crowd listening to rock moves to glam and hair. Pop metal is slightly heavier and faster giving heavier still bands an window of exposure to mainstream. So as a related genre, NWOBHM gets some airtime, as does Metallica, etc. Later the bands lose the makeup, and lower the hair. Then using the open door underground rock sounds surface (Nirvana AIC), the music evolves again. Grunge evolves (listen to the 1st and last of each Seattle band) to include a Rap type grunge. In comes Bush, Korn and then todays Nu Metal. Thats it.
Metallica didn't necessariliy move to manstream with Black, but the mainstream grew to Metallica with bands like GNR evolving the hair bands toward a style that tolerated Metal. From there Metallica exposed mainstream to Megadeth and Pantera, power and speed metal. (I am not denying Load wasnt an all out change)
I may be wrong, but I it seems logical.
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