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Just got the Glorious Burden
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AZRock



Joined: 16 Jun 2000
Posts: 173
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

It's funny how music strikes people so differently. I absolutely love this disc. I was never a big Barlow fan but I think Rippers vocals are excellent for IE. Gettysburg is the best 30 minutes of music I've ever heard. It was so inspiring for me that I went out and bought an excellent book on Gettysburg. [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

The Dark Saga crushes The Glorious Burden.

Here are the problems with Glorious Burden...

1) Ripper is good, but doesn't have as "thick" a voice as Barlow. That required the mix to be thinner as well...

2) I don't like the mix. Too tinny. Needs more bass, more thunder. But with Barlow gone, that couldn't be done.

3) Richard Christy is currently residing in the "Where are they now" file. Dude was awesome on Horror Show. But, with a tinny mix, you can't have hammering drums...

4) The lyrics are too labored. There has never been a band that did two great concept records. After Dark Saga, IE should have never done another.

5) Releasing a 9/11 outrage song two years later is, well, kinda Springsteen, with worse timing.

6) Why do I think that an independant act is pandering to a pro-military crowd to ensure that it sells records?
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General Zod



Joined: 24 Jan 2001
Posts: 2519
Location: Krypton

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:24 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
The Dark Saga crushes The Glorious Burden.

I think they are two very different discs, written by a band at different stages of development. TGB is a very more mature sounding disc, whereas TDS is much very raw.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
Here are the problems with Glorious Burden...

1) Ripper is good, but doesn't have as "thick" a voice as Barlow. That required the mix to be thinner as well...

2) I don't like the mix. Too tinny. Needs more bass, more thunder. But with Barlow gone, that couldn't be done.

I don't think the mix is "thin" at all. And even if it was, I'm not sure why Ripper's voice would require it to be so. There are many singers these days that sound like Halford. And they don't all sing on CDs with "thin" mixes.

As I am the biggest Barlow fan on the planet, I would have much preferred to have heard this CD with Matt than with Tim. That being said, Owens did a real nice job on TGB.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
3) Richard Christy is currently residing in the "Where are they now" file. Dude was awesome on Horror Show. But, with a tinny mix, you can't have hammering drums...

Richard is a top flight drummer. As such, he doesn't force "hammering drums" where they don't belong. A big part of this CD is the lyrics, and the message contained therein. Because of that, the drums often take back seat. There are plenty of heavy moments on this CD where Christy shines.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
4) The lyrics are too labored. There has never been a band that did two great concept records. After Dark Saga, IE should have never done another.

I have no clue what is meant by the lyrics sound "too labored". If that means that they sounds like Jon spent a long time working on them, something which is evidenced by their intensity, than I concur.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
5) Releasing a 9/11 outrage song two years later is, well, kinda Springsteen, with worse timing.

I'm sure Jon wrote the song around the time that the events of 9/11 transpired. He had little control over the fact that the song was released at a much later date. I see no good reason for an artist to can a song he feels strongly about, simply because of timing.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
6) Why do I think that an independant act is pandering to a pro-military crowd to ensure that it sells records?

I'm not sure how writing a very pro-American CD, when the majority of your audience is European (and not all that thrilled with the U.S. at the moment) could possibly be considered "pandering". If anything, it could be argued (which it was on this very board) that it was an ill-conceived career move. Jon wrote about something he's passionate about. Nothing less, nothing more.

GZ
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The Dorf



Joined: 11 Feb 2001
Posts: 1165
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

Finally listened to the Gettysburg disc, and I thought it was great!! The disc as a whole is pretty good IMO, and Ripper's vox are a good fit with the music. I actually prefer this over Horror Show, but nothing still tops Something Wicked This Way Comes.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:25 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

1) With regard to "I'm sure Jon wrote the song around the time that the events of 9/11 transpired," upon what do you base your being sure? The fact that you believe what you are told, or real knowledge?

2) Richard Christy on Horror Show put on an incredible demonstration of state of the art metal drumming. Listen closely to "Dracula." Dude is a great musician. And I'm a vocalist/MIDI programmer saying that. WHERE IS HE NOW???? A shame they didn't have him do it again. A big part of Horror Show was the lyrics and concept. Which didn't stop Richard then.

3) I have read interviews with IE members over how much mail they get from metalheads in the military. Which is cool, but shouldn't have influence over what gets released over two years after 9/11. Marketing should take a back seat.

4) The lyrics pretending to quote Confederate Generals talking to Robert E. Lee just don't make it. Neither does "... situation, forced to retaliation." Both very obvious and very stilted.

5) Opening with the "Star Spangled Banner" was invented by Jimi Hendrix in 1968.

6) What I characterize as the "thin" mix includes the guitar sound. Listen to the opening riffs on "Something Wicked" and then the opening of "Declaration Day." No contest.

7) F*ck Europe -- I'm as pro-American as they come. But, I think in its great lyrics about betrayal, pain, suffering, and vengeance, The Dark Saga said more about 9/11 than Glorious Burden does.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

By the way, I don't want to come across as slamming Ripper Owens, who I saw do a great job fronting Priest in NYC on the Jugulator tour. He is an excellent singer. I wouldn't say that he sounds like Halford, actually. He's more like "Midnight" in Crimson Glory. But, Jon Schaeffer's awesome guitar sound (combination of overdriven and tightly echoed) had to be cut back, as Ripper has less growl in his voice than Barlow. I have always thought that the (also excellent guitarist) Jon Drenning guitar sound on Crimson Glory's classic "Transcendence" was lacking in bottom. Same situation.
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JosephC



Joined: 26 Apr 2000
Posts: 1074
Location: Middleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
1) With regard to "I'm sure Jon wrote the song around the time that the events of 9/11 transpired," upon what do you base your being sure? The fact that you believe what you are told, or real knowledge?

Well the song was completely finished earlier than March of 2003. You can verify that on Iced Earth's official website. Chances are probably pretty good that the lyrics were written long before that.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
2) Richard Christy on Horror Show put on an incredible demonstration of state of the art metal drumming. Listen closely to "Dracula." Dude is a great musician. And I'm a vocalist/MIDI programmer saying that. WHERE IS HE NOW???? A shame they didn't have him do it again. A big part of Horror Show was the lyrics and concept. Which didn't stop Richard then.

Schaffer has always "held back" drummers so they don't interfere with his "vision" of a song. If you want to hear Richard Christy in top form don't listen to Horror Show, listen to The Sound of Perserverance instead. I really don't hear a whole heck of a lot of difference between the percussion in Horror Show and The Glorious Burden...at least not enough to comment. But I guess I'm not a vocalist/MIDI programmer...

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
3) I have read interviews with IE members over how much mail they get from metalheads in the military. Which is cool, but shouldn't have influence over what gets released over two years after 9/11. Marketing should take a back seat.

Why is this all of a sudden a "marketing gimmick?" Didn't Iced Earth put the title 1776 on an instrumental before 9/11 happened. Didn't Iced Earth put a patriotic song named Ghost of Freedom on a CD before 9/11 happened. Didn't Iced Earth put a huge list of names of people who served in the military in the booklet for Horror Show? And all of a sudden The Glorious Burden is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Sorry, I saw The Glorious Burden happening before 9/11 happened. It was pretty obvious from some of the content of the previous CDs and interviews with Schaffer where he proclaimed his love for history.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
4) The lyrics pretending to quote Confederate Generals talking to Robert E. Lee just don't make it. Neither does "... situation, forced to retaliation." Both very obvious and very stilted.

Schaffer acknowledges this in the notes. He calls the Lee section an "interpretation" and nowhere does he claim it to be a transcript. Personally, I think it may be the most compelling moment on the entire CD.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
5) Opening with the "Star Spangled Banner" was invented by Jimi Hendrix in 1968.

Or "invented" by a person named Francis Scott Key.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
6) What I characterize as the "thin" mix includes the guitar sound. Listen to the opening riffs on "Something Wicked" and then the opening of "Declaration Day." No contest.

And this comes from a vocalist/MIDI programmer....

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
7) **** Europe -- I'm as pro-American as they come. But, I think in its great lyrics about betrayal, pain, suffering, and vengeance, The Dark Saga said more about 9/11 than Glorious Burden does.

I disagree. The Dark Saga is based on a comic book, The Glorious Burden is based on real life. If you can listen to the "brother against brother" section of the trilogy and not realize that it actually happened, then maybe you should go back and listen to it again and think about it for awhile.
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Ug



Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1028
Location: Down in a Hole

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

I like Glorious Burden (though not as much as Burnt Offerings or Horror Show). There are some songs on the album that I can live without like "Attila","Declaration Day" and "Green Face", and the most annoying song "When the eagles Cries". I do not agree with the lyrics on that song especially when Ripper sings "...the sleeping giant is asleep no longer...". If the giant was asleep as he says, 9/11 would not have happened, anyway f [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ck politics. You can always sing "We'll eat freedom fries" instead. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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General Zod



Joined: 24 Jan 2001
Posts: 2519
Location: Krypton

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Just got the Glorious Burden Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
1) With regard to "I'm sure Jon wrote the song around the time that the events of 9/11 transpired," upon what do you base your being sure? The fact that you believe what you are told, or real knowledge?

Although I think JoeC responded to most of these comments admirably, I'll add a few points.

No, I wasn't there when Jon wrote this. So yes, I'm going by what I read. Having met Jon, he strikes me as a guy who pulls very few punches. I don't see what his motivation would be for lying about this.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
2) Richard Christy on Horror Show put on an incredible demonstration of state of the art metal drumming. Listen closely to "Dracula."

Ironically, "Dracula" may be my favorite song of all-time. I just love Matt's vocals, as well as the lyrics. And I agree that Richard's drums are fantastic here.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
3) I have read interviews with IE members over how much mail they get from metalheads in the military. Which is cool, but shouldn't have influence over what gets released over two years after 9/11. Marketing should take a back seat.

Earlier you asked me if "you believe what you are told, or real knowledge?". Now I'll ask you; do you know for a fact that this was purely a marketing decision?

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
4) The lyrics pretending to quote Confederate Generals talking to Robert E. Lee just don't make it. Neither does "... situation, forced to retaliation." Both very obvious and very stilted.

As JoeC pointed out, Jon admits this in the liner notes.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
6) What I characterize as the "thin" mix includes the guitar sound. Listen to the opening riffs on "Something Wicked" and then the opening of "Declaration Day." No contest.

I'll respectfully disagree.

quote:
Originally posted by CollectorOfWomen:
7) F*ck Europe -- I'm as pro-American as they come. But, I think in its great lyrics about betrayal, pain, suffering, and vengeance, The Dark Saga said more about 9/11 than Glorious Burden does.

Earlier you stated, "Why do I think that an independant act is pandering to a pro-military crowd to ensure that it sells records?". Then you stated, "I think in its great lyrics about betrayal, pain, suffering, and vengeance." So which is it, are they great lyrics or were they pandering?

GZ
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