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The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:33 am    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

It could conceivably be something that develops over time, neither something under your personal control nor something you're destined to be from the womb. I think that's a far more likely scenario than "born that way" OR that anyone would purposely choose to make themselves the targets of derision, scorn and predjudice.
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:09 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:

Not to dwell on this, but Tyranno, if sexual preference isn't something your born with or a choice that one makes than how else does it come about . . .

God?
Gun to the head?
[/QUOTE]

Well, sometimes things just work out that way, due to a myriad of stimuli over the course of our lives. Lots of things about you, aren't choices, but you weren't born with them either. On a music-specific note, let's put it this way - metal appeals to just about everybody here, I think it's safe to say, more than any other kind of music. Now, did we [i]choose[/i] to find metal more appealing? Of course not - that would not be a very honest way of finding what clicks with us. We either find it appealing, or we don't. And it's probably pretty safe to say we weren't born banging out heads and making the sign of the horns with tiny fingers we otherwise couldn't figure out how to use yet [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

(and, yes...it could be both. And I remain convinced that the whole debate is an irrelevant sidetrack.)
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:55 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

But we DO choose to act upon it.

Do you think serial killers CHOOSE to want to kill people? Of course not, but society still holds them accountable when they act upon their impulses.
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rockin500



Joined: 18 Jan 2001
Posts: 739
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:07 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

well, GLBT's were persecuted under the reich too. and still not very accepted. Just ask Matthew Shepard.
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:56 am    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
But we DO choose to act upon it.


True, which leads to the more relevant (and, I think, doomed to an inevitable conclusion) question of whether homosexual acts are immoral.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:33 am    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
But we DO choose to act upon it.

Do you think serial killers CHOOSE to want to kill people? Of course not, but society still holds them accountable when they act upon their impulses.

Now you've entered into the realm of metal state/ illness etc. It has been proven that such mental neorosis' exists such as schizophrenia, obssesive compulsive disorder & pure obssesiveness, etc. If it is the case of a killer to act on a metal disturbance "impulsue" and not his free will I would have to say that he is drawn or almost metaly forced to kill. I'm sure that there are instances where some one kills due to a short term impulse, where he wouldn't ordinarily do so. In such a case, immediately following the kill he regrets the action forever as it was something he never wanted nor will ever do again. The opposite case would be a man like Adolf Hitler, where he wasn't ordering the mass killings of jews on impulse, this was long term, contrived thought processes where he beleived in his (quite possibly paranoid) mind that he was doing the right thing.

My point being, that when discussing such issues whether it be dictators inflicting genocide or homosexuality, there probably needs to be some place to put individuals who may have mental issues who aren't necessariy free thinkers that can't control their thoughts as well as others. I'm not saying homosexuals are all mentaly impaired individuals because there [i]are[/i] men/ women who are truly attracted,sexually to the same sex and that's fine (for them). Hey, even myself as a heterosexual man am not afraid to admit that I would prefer to see a lovemaking scene in a movie with a handsome guy and a hot chick rather than some fat bloke. It's not being attracted to the man in an [i]I want to have sex with him[/i] way, It's just the way my fantasies run in my head and my imagery of the perfect couple.
[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:13 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
. . . Since I believe that morality is a manufactured construct designed to protect the power of religious fear mongers rather than something with actual value, I think you know where I stand (as if being bisexual wasn't your first clue).

With regards to religious influence on morality, this is a fairly good assment. I do beleive that what makes humans such a great and complex species is each individual's right to create nad live within their own moral standard without living up to some religious or government expectations/ laws, etc.. Unfortunately, with such individual moral strength comes others meaning to surpress it and beat it down with their own self righteous beliefs.

This is just a sad fact of life.
[img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:50 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

I guess what I meant to say is that, in the final analysis I am a nihilist. I don't believe that there is any sort of teleological purpose to life. Life simply is. If life is divorced of any ultimate meaning or purpose beyond that which we make for ourselves, then there is no basis for externalized morality and normative standards of "right" and "wrong."
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Templar



Joined: 17 Oct 1999
Posts: 592
Location: the planet of the apes

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:06 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

Totenkopf --

Given your nihilistic point of view, which person out of history would you say lived the most successful life? I mean, a materialistic person might pick some billionaire, for example, because a materialist measures success that way. Or a spiritual person might pick Mother Teresa, or a hedonist might pick some rock star who got laid a million times. Who would a nihilist pick?
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