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The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:36 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

The man who lived his life exactly the way he wanted, without looking beyond himself or leaning on imaginary crutches to make his decisions.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:09 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
The man who lived his life exactly the way he wanted, without looking beyond himself or leaning on imaginary crutches to make his decisions.

That leaves me out. I've always wanted a 12" shlong, the body of a Greek God and to be with many women. Instead I'm just about average between the legs, bald and married to one woman.

Honestly though, I wouldn't give it up for the world.
[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

On a serious note, Totenkopf, last year after the 9-11 disaster happened here in the U.S. I read an interview (I want to say from Scott Ian of [b]Anthrax[/b] but I could be wrong) and in the interview something was mentioned about terrorists (I can't remember specifically if any names were mentioned) being nihilists and talked about them having no regard for human life, etc, etc., The whole thing just sounded real grim regarding nihilism in general. Since then I've seen the term nihilist mentioned quite often with regards to terrorism. Unfortunately, I haven't heard too much positive info about nihilism.

Can you set me straight on this belief? Can you convince me that nihilism is not all gloom and doom because I really don't beleive it is.
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Rockangel



Joined: 28 May 2000
Posts: 1367
Location: A step away from crazy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:33 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

Main Entry: ni.hil.ism
Pronunciation: 'nI-(h)&-"li-z&m, 'nE-
Function: noun
Etymology: German Nihilismus, from Latin nihil nothing -- more at NIL
Date: circa 1817
1 a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths
2 a (1) : a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility (2) capitalized : the program of a 19th century Russian party advocating revolutionary reform and using terrorism and assassination
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:17 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

In practice, nihilism means rejecting notions of "meaning" or "purpose" in life. Nihilists don't believe that human life is directed towards some metaphysical or supernatural goal. One consequence of this is that we reject the notion of external moral absolutes. We don't see things as intrinsically "right" or intrinsically "wrong," rather we make "moral" judgements on the basis of the function value. We don't ask, "Is this right," we ask, "Will this serve a useful and beneficial purpose."
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:13 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Tyrannorabbit:
quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
But we DO choose to act upon it.


True, which leads to the more relevant (and, I think, doomed to an inevitable conclusion) question of whether homosexual acts are immoral.
I agree with that assessment. The question isn't whether homosexual orientation is a choice or not, the question is one of morality. Since I believe that morality is a manufactured construct designed to protect the power of religious fear mongers rather than something with actual value, I think you know where I stand (as if being bisexual wasn't your first clue).
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:18 am    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
We don't see things as intrinsically "right" or intrinsically "wrong," rather we make "moral" judgements on the basis of the function value. We don't ask, "Is this right," we ask, "Will this serve a useful and beneficial purpose."

Your interpretation sounds more like logical thinking to me and not as dooming as the definitions read.
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:10 am    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:
quote:
Originally posted by Totenkopf:
We don't see things as intrinsically "right" or intrinsically "wrong," rather we make "moral" judgements on the basis of the function value. We don't ask, "Is this right," we ask, "Will this serve a useful and beneficial purpose."

Your interpretation sounds more like logical thinking to me and not as dooming as the definitions read.
That's because when outsiders comment on nihilism, they tend to distort it's meaning out of ignorance or fear. Our entire social construct still carries with it the assumption of Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values (even if Judeo-Christian religious belief is not always assumed). For people who accept that social construct and the external normative moral values that come with it, nihilism is a terrifying proposition, so they tend to report it in ways calculated to discredit or undermine it.

In essence, the nihilist lives his or her life without superstition or sentimentality. We accept the world as it is and make decisions based on cold, hard reality, rather than letting emotion or superstitious social controls make our decisions for us. This scares the hell out of people who think that worthless things like "love" and the suggested "Law" of "God" should guide human action. Ultimately, of course, humanity learns more with each passing day. And, as a result, the fools who cling to superstition and sentiment grow fewer every day, while our numbers increase. The influence of nihilism is waxing stronger each day, while the Cross rots slowly from within.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:21 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

Totenkopf :
So, basically it's every man for himself?
If everyone in the world were a nihilist does that mean 5 or 6 billion people fighting against each other, or would everyone, with each of their individualaities live hapily ever after understanding each others differences?

Thoughts to ponder:
If the common law says that people are to drive their cars on the right side of the road is it safe to say that a nihilist would choose to drive on which ever side of the road he or she wishes. And if the red traffic light by law means all cars must stop, would a nihilst choose to go if he/she felt it would benefit them at that particular moment in time?

Or, if the building code (another form of local law) says that you can't build a house more than 3 stories in a particular neighborhood would a nihilist do his own thing and build a 10 story home if he thought it necessary for his well being.

If having sex with a 10 year old girl is moraly unexceptable and punishable to the full extent of the law but the nihilist feels sex with that person is something he wishes to do and doesn't abide by the common law, does that make it acceptable within the nihilist community?

Also, when you mention the word "love", is it possible to love someone while abiding to nihilist beliefs, and not ahering to popular definitions of "love" that exist soley because society says it should exist in a certain way.
What I mean is, can a nihilist loving someone just because you feel it inside your self regardless of what the surrounding culture has entrenched in your mind.

I'm also curious as to what bands you listen to?
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Totenkopf



Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:23 pm    Post subject: The extermination of jews, races, and other classified peop Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:
Totenkopf :
So, basically it's every man for himself?

To an extent. However, in ANY free society it's going to be basically every man for himself. The reality of course is that proper decision making, even divorced from sentiment and external morality will result in the betterment of all.

quote:
If everyone in the world were a nihilist does that mean 5 or 6 billion people fighting against each other, or would everyone, with each of their individualaities live hapily ever after understanding each others differences?
In all liklihood, neither. But I do think it would improve the quality of life (i.e. no more persecution of people for "immorality" like homosexual behavior).

quote:
Thoughts to ponder:
If the common law says that people are to drive their cars on the right side of the road is it safe to say that a nihilist would choose to drive on which ever side of the road he or she wishes.

The nihilist would drive on the side of the road that isn't going to get him killed. Nihilism isn't the same thing as anarchy. It doesn't mean that there are no LAWS, it simply means that laws should be based upon logic and function, not sentimentality and fictitious notions of "right" and "wrong."

quote:
If having sex with a 10 year old girl is moraly unexceptable and punishable to the full extent of the law but the nihilist feels sex with that person is something he wishes to do and doesn't abide by the common law, does that make it acceptable within the nihilist community?
Allowing grown men to have sex with ten year olds is demonstratably hazardous to the girl and to the community at large. It would be banned for these reasons, not due to some nebulous concept of "immorality."

quote:
Also, when you mention the word "love", is it possible to love someone while abiding to nihilist beliefs, and not ahering to popular definitions of "love" that exist soley because society says it should exist in a certain way.
Nihilists simply reject the notion that "love" or any other sentiment or emotion should be the basis of sociopolitical relationships, we don't deny the possibility or desirability of love between two individuals.

What I mean is, can a nihilist loving someone just because you feel it inside your self regardless of what the surrounding culture has entrenched in your mind.

quote:
I'm also curious as to what bands you listen to?
Here's my "Buy or Die" List:

[b] NWOBHM[/b]

[b] Angel Witch[/b]- [i] Angel Witch[/i]
[b] Witchfinder General[/b]- [i] Death Penalty[/i]
[b] Witchfinder General[/b]- [i] Friends of Hell[/i]
[b] Holocaust[/b]- [i] The Nightcomers[/i]
[b] Witchfynde[/b]- [i] Stagefright[/i]
[b] Satan[/b]- [i] Court in Act[/i]
[b] Samson[/b]- [i] Head On[/i]
[b] Samson[/b]- [i] Shock Tactics[/i]
[b] Diamond Head[/b]- [i] Lightning to the Nations[/i]
[b] Iron Maiden[/b]- [i] Killers[/i]

[b] Thrash[/b]

[b] Anacrusis[/b]- [i] The Suffering Hour[/i]
[b] Sabbat[/b]- [i] History of a Time to Come[/i]
[b] VoiVod[/b]- [i] RRROOOAAARRR[/i]
[b] Artillery[/b]- [i] Terror Squad[/i]
[b] Indungeon[/b]- [i] Machinegunnery of Doom[/i]
[b] Dark Angel[/b]- [i] Darkness Descends[/i]
[b] Iced Earth[/b]- [i] Burnt Offerings[/i]
[b] Sodom[/b]- [i] Persecution Mania[/i]
[b] Kreator[/b]- [i] Coma of Souls[/i]
[b] Coroner[/b]- [i] No More Color[/i]

[b] Death Metal (First Wave, Death/Thrash)[/b]

[b] Pestilence[/b]- [i] Malleus Maleficarum[/i]
[b] Pestilence[/b]- [i] Consuming Impulse[/i]
[b] Possessed[/b]- [i] Seven Churches[/i]
[b] Possessed[/b]- [i] Beyond the Gates[/i]
[b] Death[/b]- [i] Scream Bloody Gore[/i]
[b] Death[/b]- [i] Leprosy[/i]
[b] Slaughter[/b]- [i] Strappado[/i]
[b] Master[/b]- [i] Master[/i]
[b] Sepultura[/b]- [i] Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation[/i]
[b] Necrophagia[/b]- [i] Season of the Dead[/i]

[b] Death Metal (Second Wave and Later)[/b]

[b] Demilich[/b]- [i] Nespithe[/i]
[b] Therion[/b]- [i]Beyond Sanctorum[/i]
[b] Atrocity[/b]- [i] Longing For Death[/i]
[b] Nocturnus[/b]- [i] The Key[/i]
[b] Disincarnate[/b]- [i] Dreams of the Carrion Kind[/i]
[b] DarkThrone[/b]- [i] Soulside Journey[/i]
[b] Pestilence[/b]- [i] Testimony of the Ancients[/i]
[b] Acheron[/b]- [i] Lex Talionis[/i]
[b] Amorphis[/b]- [i] The Karelian Isthmus[/i]
[b] Demigod[/b]- [i] Slumber of Sullen Eyes[/i]

[b] Black Metal (First Wave)[/b]

[b] Venom[/b]-[i] Welcome To Hell[/i]
[b] Venom[/b]- [i] Black Metal[/i]
[b] Venom[/b]- [i] At War With Satan[/i]
[b] Bathory[/b]- [i] The Return[/i]
[b] Bathory[/b]- [i] Under the Sign of the Black Mark[/i]
[b] Hellhammer[/b]- [i] Apocalyptic Raids[/i]
[b] Sarcofago[/b]- [i] I.N.R.I.[/i]
[b] Sodom[/b]- [i] In the Sign of Evil[/i]
[b] Mercyful Fate[/b]- [i] Don't Break the Oath[/i]
[b] Von[/b]- [i] Satanic Blood[/i]

[b] Black Metal (Second Wave)[/b]

[b] Beherit[/b]- [i] Drawing Down the Moon[/i]
[b] Countess[/b]- [i] The Return of the Horned One[/i]
[b] DarkThrone[/b]- [i] Transilvanian Hunger[/i]
[b] Havohej[/b]- [i] Dethrone the Son of God[/i]
[b] Burzum[/b]- [i] Burzum[/i]
[b] Demonic Christ[/b]- [i] Punishment for Ignorance[/i]
[b] Demoncy[/b]- [i] Faustian Dawn/Within the Sylvan Realms of Frost[/i]
[b] Megiddo[/b]- [i] The Devil and the Whore[/i]
[b] Varathron[/b]- [i] His Majesty in the Swamp[/i]
[b] Graveland[/b]- [i] Thousand Swords[/i]

[b] Doom and Doom/Death[/b]

[b] Cathedral[/b]- [i] Forest of Equilibrium[/i]
[b] Candlemass[/b]- [i] Epicus Doomicus Metallicus[/i]
[b] Candlemass[/b]- [i] Nightfall[/i]
[b] It Is I[/b]- [i] Evolve[/i]
[b] Mythic[/b]- [i] Mourning the Winter Solstice[/i]
[b] Confessor[/b]- [i] Condemned[/i]
[b] Thergothon[/b]- [i] Stream From the Heavens[/i]
[b] Unholy[/b]- [i] Rapture[/i]
[b] Sleep[/b]- [i] Jerusalem[/i]
[b] Skepticism[/b]- [i] Stormcrowfleet[/i]

[b] Avant-Garde/Progressive[/b]

[b] Windham Hell[/b]- [i] Window of Souls[/i]
[b] Windham Hell[/b]- [i] Reflexive Depths Imbibe[/i]
[b] Cynic[/b]- [i] Focus[/i]
[b] Atheist[/b]- [i] Unquestionable Presence[/i]
[b] Fleurety[/b]- [i] Department of Apocalyptic Affairs[/i]
[b] VoiVod[/b]- [i] Killing Technology[/i]
[b] Ved Buens Ende[/b]- [i] Written in Waters[/i]
[b] Maudlin of the Well[/b]- [i] Bath[/i]
[b] Maudlin of the Well[/b]- [i] Leaving Your Body Map[/i]
[b] Sigh[/b]- [i] Hail Horror Hail[/i]
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