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What's it all about Alfie?
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Mijarra



Joined: 28 Nov 2000
Posts: 1564
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:05 pm    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

[i]It can't be all coincidence
Too many things are evident
You tell me your an unbeliever
Spiritualist... Well me I'm neither
But wouldn't you like to know the truth?
Of what's out there
To have the proof
And find out just what side your on
Where would you, in heaven or in hell?[/i]

I had quite an interesting experience today. One that I believe is significant, although I'm not yet sure exactly how. I work with disabled elderly people, and today we took them on a field trip to a local monestary. Expecting to be on our own, we went into the main chapel and there was a man playing guitar on the, uh, "stage" I guess? Whatever the place in the church is where the priests stand. He introduced himself as Father Edward and started talking to us. He said he played classical guitar, piano, and violin. He played us a song on guitar and a great classical piece on piano. There was something about this guy. Like, I don't know about auras and all that mumbo jumbo, but this guy just seemed to shine or something in some way. Everything he said seemed to have power, not in a big booming kind of way, but just kinda like he seemed to know exactly which words to choose. He explained to us about the monestary and how things were built and changed throught the years. Then he said something really cool, maybe from the Bible but I don't know. He said something like:

[i]The birds of the air have their nests, the foxes have their dens, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head. So have I been throughout my life, without a home. [/i]

He explained how he'd been in different parts of North America, Canada, Mexico, and back to America, following Jesus and doing what was asked of him. He was quite a facinating guy.

Then we went downstairs and the elderly people I was with were lighting candles, so, I thought, what the heck. I lit candles for people in my family, some personal intentions, and all the residents I work with. I never did anything like that before, except maybe when I was a kid. It was very peaceful, in a weird kind of way. It seems almost like hocus pocus or something, but it didn't seem as shallow.

We went outside to the outdoor stations of the cross. There were little bricks with people's names on them who had donated to the renovation of the monestary. The worker I was with pointed to one and said "There's a familiar name." I looked...and it was my grandfather's name, who has been dead for 25 years! Above was my (still living) grandmothers name. Out of probably 10,000 names we just happened to come across these. It was really weird.

So, now I am left to sort out the events of the day and find the significance of things. The beauty and power of the art we found in the chapels we visited, the chance meeting of the interesting Priest, finding my dead grandfathers name in the bricks, the vibe in the room where the candles were lit. I feel "effected" but I can't decide how. I feel like I should write something (besides this, lol) or paint something or...I don't know, DO something with this experience.

I'm not all that religious, in a conventional way. I was raised Catholic, but I haven't gone to church regularly in over 10 years. It makes me think though, maybe there's a reason to things beyond what I percieve to be reality. Maybe there's "majic" to the universe, and we call it religion. I dunno. What do you think???
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nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:10 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

I wouldnt completly discount these events,maybe it was a higher being trying to reach you...to tell you something,maybe its thanks for caring for the elders....
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:14 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

I'm a borderline atheist, but I do believe that the universe is bigger and weirder than any of us know or probably CAN know. It'll keep finding new ways to surprise you.
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Lars37



Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1222
Location: the bowels of Chicagoland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:21 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. It's a cool story, and I'm glad if it helped you to feel good or to believe in a higher meaning. I personally think religion is good in an abstract form, rather than mechanically reciting passages from a book and making them fit whatever point someone's already trying to prove. But I'm not going to rain on anyone's religion, unless they're using it to the harm of others. At that point, it stops being a religion and starts being an excuse, I think.

The only part I'd "disagree" with is this: birds create their nests, and foxes fashion their dens, so if man builds a house ( or has one built ) in the place of their choice, he's done basically the same thing. It's a minor point, I know, but still...
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Ogre



Joined: 06 Nov 2000
Posts: 425
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:53 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Lars37:
The only part I'd "disagree" with is this: birds create their nests, and foxes fashion their dens, so if man builds a house ( or has one built ) in the place of their choice, he's done basically the same thing. It's a minor point, I know, but still...

Actually, that was a Scriptural (specifically, as assertion of Jesus') reference the gentleman was citing-- "The Son of Man" is one of the names Jesus used for Himself, "The Son of Man" does not refer to mankind in general.

Maybe you are thinking of "The Sons of Adam" from _The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe_ by C.S. Lewis... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

An interesting (to me, at least) tangent on my initial tangent regarding the classic children's series of The Tales of Narnia (of which _The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe_ was one of the installments): C.S. Lewis was actually a Christian theologian and a prolific writer of theological papers and books; _TLTWATW_ was actually a didactic tool for introducing the concept of Christianity to young readers (wherein the lion Aslan represented Christ and the witch represented Satan/"evil").
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Lars37



Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1222
Location: the bowels of Chicagoland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:31 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

No, I understood the point and basically where the quote came from, I was just saying that I disagree with the premise.
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Rockangel



Joined: 28 May 2000
Posts: 1367
Location: A step away from crazy

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:58 am    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

A beautiful story Mijarra. And there is a logical reason that you felt that way when lighting the candles. That is ritual, witch doesn't have to be steeped in religion. There is evidence that rituals have been with man for as far back as cavemen. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] And in every civilization. Ritual helps us really focus on the moment. It's why kids hate sitting through them, they still live in the moment. As adults we lose this ability to some degree and rituals are like taking 10 deep breaths before we do something. And oddly it is kinda like magic.

An example, when I am about to cook a killer meal, something where presentation is as important as the taste I lay out everything I am going to use before hand. I lay the knives out and stirring spoons, I pre measure any salt and spices flour and other things I might use. Pots on the stove and ready. I mean everything. Then I step back from it give myself a moment then when I am thinking of nothing else but all the item laying out there I get started. I am totally in the moment and things almost always go smoothly and quickly. Like everything magically comes together without a hitch. And it's all based on this ritual.

Lighting those candles is the same thing. You become totally focused on this specific in front of you. Not wondering if there is gas in the car? And did I do that paper work? You're just really focused on the moment. Like kids can do.

As for the other stuff, I have no answer. I am a total agnostic. I don't know if there is a God or not and can live happily till my dying day without having this question answered. Just because I am more interested in the here and now rather than the after life. It just has no impact on how I live day to day since I just try to be a good person because I think it's the right thing to do, not for some reward in the after life. So I can't help you there.

I will say Monasteries are some of the coolest places I've ever been too, steeped in history and often in the arts. I am glad you had fun on your trip sounds like it was very cool. I'd like to meet this holy man. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Ogre



Joined: 06 Nov 2000
Posts: 425
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:45 pm    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Lars37:
No, I understood the point and basically where the quote came from, I was just saying that I disagree with the premise.

I am confused. The only "premise" of the line is that Jesus was feeling sorry for himself for being homeless.

For you to disagree with "the premise" would be for you to suspect that Jesus was hiding the fact that he had a condo somewhere (or, possibly, a secret hideout like Zorro, Batman or Superman, maybe?). [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

"Alright, Jesus, you lying dog, I hear the keys to your condo rattling around in your tunic-- I KNOW you have a place to live so stop feeding me your nonsense!!!"
--Lars' Middle Eastern ancestor, circa 30AD
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iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:47 pm    Post subject: What's it all about Alfie? Reply with quote

Cool story Mijarra! I've often felt the same kind of awe that you felt when I've been in a place of worship. My sister went to church for the first time in a long time and felt the same thing. I can't really describe or explain it. I think things like that are better left that way.
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