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U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:00 am    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

I read recently that the house has OK'd airline pilots the right to use firearms (after being properly trained).
Is it just me or does this sound like a real bad idea? First off, guns are only as effective as the user makes them. It takes much skill and guts to shoot someone. Any such decision has to made within a seconds time and with no hesitation. If you hesitate, chances are the gun will be used against you or just be rendered useless. Secondly, anyone who may come into the cockpit already has a few second jump on the captain and his mates merely because they are facing away from the cockpit door. Thirdly, aren't many of these pilots working on 20 or more hour days with minimal sleep. Ths just seems like more reason for bad judgement calls to made. The fourth reason may be the most obvious reason for this being a bad idea. Just the fact that the cockpit has much surface area that is glass. The chances of a gun shooting a hole (possibly shattering) the glass and messing with the cabin pressure seems pretty high to me.

The whole thing just seems like the government's over zealous attempt at giving American citizens a false sense of security in the air.

Ultimately, this to me is a bad idea.
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rockin500



Joined: 18 Jan 2001
Posts: 739
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:21 am    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

its been an idea that has been bandied about for years and years, but nothing really ignited a fire to get it ok'd. Sept. 11th got the idea ignited again though. Im not sure it would help or hurt but im sure its been carefully weighed.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:01 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by thrash4life:
The simplest solution...and I`m suprised this hasn`t been done. The cabin of an airplane is pretty much a closed enviroment, so if a sleeping agent or knock-out gas was released into the cabin by the pilot in the event of a hostage or emergency situation, it would render everyone unconscious and resolve the situation. Armed pilots would not be a good thing and it just gives a terrorist access to one more weapon.

Sounds good until the terrorists pull down the oxygen masks that exist above everyone's seats.

You're right, access to one more weapon that the terrorists didn't need to sneak through security.
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thrash4life



Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:00 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:

Sounds good until the terrorists pull down the oxygen masks that exist above everyone's seats.

Those would be disabled when the pilot activated the knock-out gas system.
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:04 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

I'm not particularly a big gun fan, but I don't think this is too bad of an idea. Most of these pilots are ex-military anyway - it's not like they can't handle the things.

As many pilots say the battle's already lost once a hijacker gets past the cockpit door, however.

I don't really think it'd make that big a difference either way, though. If American airlines want to be secure, here's an easy tip: do everything El Al does.
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Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:43 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Tyrannorabbit:
here's an easy tip: do everything El Al does.

???
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iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:48 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

Maybe they should just train pilots on how to disarm attackers with guns or have marshalls on board for that type of thing. I'm not sure about pilots having guns either.
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thrash4life



Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:18 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrannorabbit:
here's an easy tip: do everything El Al does.

???
El Al has armed guards posing as passengers on their flights
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JesseR72



Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 414
Location: PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 4:14 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

Arming the Pilots, I think is a good idea. Having undercover armed marshalls is a better idea. Both would be a deterant. However, I don't know that they would've prevented what happend on Sept 11th. Remember what happened? 4 hijackers armed with small knives and box cutters managed to hijack each plane. Each plane had enough passengers and crew to overpower the hijackers with the small arms that they had, but out of 4 planes that were hijacked only one set of passengers went for it. Why only one? Why didn't the others try to overtake the hijackers? Because the hijackers most likely grabbed one passenger or crew member, stuck a knife or sharp object to their throat and threatened to kill him or her if they were not let into the cockpit. Since there was no major precedent for hijackers flying planes into buildings, the conventional wisdom says to give the hijackers what they want and NOBODY has to die. Thanks to cell phones, by the time plane number 4 was hijacked, the passengers and crew knew their fate if they didn't do something. Back to the first 3 planes. Do you think anything would've been different if the pilots had guns? Or if there were undercover armed air marshalls? Knowing what we know now, yes! Knowing what we knew then, no. The pilots and air marshalls would've relinquished their guns for fear that that one person would get their throat slashed....and the hijackers would've continued on with their plans.
I like the idea of the pilots having access to some sort of "knock-out" gas, that could work. I heard an even better idea a few weeks after sept 11th and that was why not have the cockpit accessable from the outside only. Let there be NO means of access from the passenger area to the cockpit. i think that may be the best way to prevent another September 11th.
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