HardRadio.com Main Page

HardRadio HardBoard
The Heavy Metal Supersite
 
    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HardRadio HardBoard Forum Index -> Free For All Forum
Digg it Stumble it Submit to Del.icio.us Reddit it Slashdot it  
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Templar



Joined: 17 Oct 1999
Posts: 592
Location: the planet of the apes

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:25 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

Jesse R72 is right. It probably wouldn't have helped on 9/11, but it would help now. The terrorists were allowed access to the cabin because they threatened the lives of passengers or crew members. From now on, it needs to be understood by all the crew and passengers of a commercial aircraft that if a terrorist holds a blade to your throat and threatens to kill you, you are toast, because no way is everyone just going to sit by and let terrorists fly planes into skyscrapers any more. Better one dead than thousands.

As I understand this new legislation, only ex-military and ex-law enforcement pilots will be allowed to carry guns, therefore they're already trained. Not that using a pistol is that hard -- the [i]will[/i] to kill with it is more important than skill. Bullets like Glaser safety slugs or other ammunition that fragments on first contact would actually be fairly safe -- they would be very unlikely to breach the hull of the aircraft. Line the cockpit walls with kevlar, and bullets definitely won't breach it.

I think arming pilots is a good idea, provided it's backed up with some other precautions, such as (1) locked and armored cockpit doors, and (2) the understanding among passengers and crew that even if the terrorists slit the throats of every passenger and crew member, the cockpit doors are not going to be opened, period. If terrorists manage to break their way into the cockpit, armed pilots can easily kill anybody armed with only a boxcutter. Air marshals in civvies are also a good idea.

The sleeping gas idea is not bad, unless that stuff is inflammable. I don't know much about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JesseR72



Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 414
Location: PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:11 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Templar:
From now on, it needs to be understood by all the crew and passengers of a commercial aircraft that if a terrorist holds a blade to your throat and threatens to kill you, you are toast, because no way is everyone just going to sit by and let terrorists fly planes into skyscrapers any more. Better one dead than thousands.

It's sad that it's come to this isn't it? But I couldn't agree more. "Better one dead than thousands" The passengers on three of those 9/11 flights appeased the terrorists so that one person (or two) wouldn't die, but that person wound up dying anyhow...along with the other passengers, the crew and thousands of innocent people. It is truely sad that this is the choice we have to make.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:14 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

The main reason those terrorists were able to kill over 3000 people on sept 11,is all this politcal correctness in the issue of guns.and race.
The pro and cons read as usual,you arm pilots then more people would get unitentionally hurt or killed,but if this is the intent of the hijacker-terrorist then logic would dictate you should do all you can to save your life and the lives of the people who have entrusted you for their safety.If this includes killing a hijacker at 15,000 feet then so be it...and if the airlines would stop being affraid to profile which isnt a bad thing,only liberals do.
Just ask yourself what was the make-up of the terrorists on 9-11?what are the make-up of terrorist in Isreal..they arnt blonde and blue eyed...so if you know a certain type of people are hell-bent to kill you and is always has the same make-up then you cant help but profile.
I think the pilot should be armed,obviously with training.see the Idea of advertising that fact US pilots are armed may stop someone from trying another 9-11.as I said sure there are drawbacks but you need a fighting chance.
also there is ammunition that fragments upon impact so the saftey of the plane would not be an issue,you wouldnt need to worry about richochets or penatrating a vital area of an airliner.this ammo is called Magsafe.
so that excuse in null and void.
Like its been said"I would rather have a gun and not need it than not have a gun and need it" to save my life or others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mijarra



Joined: 28 Nov 2000
Posts: 1564
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:48 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

nuclear_x...heh heh...without going out on the same limb as you did, let me just say I totally agree with you regarding profiling. I'm usually the one going off on the right wing-tangent around here...glad I don't have to this time! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

To the issue:

I personally think that the general public needs to take a step back and realize there are people assessing this situation who know much more than they do. Does a pilot with a gun sound like a bad idea? Yeah, to me it does, but there are people who know a lot more than I do. If it is safe to do, if it a good deterrant, if it makes the pilots feel better, then maybe it is a good idea.

But I think it's just the tip of the iceburg. T-Rabbit brought up El Al, and I think that is an excellent model as to how our air terminals should be operated. Say what you like about Israel, but they kick a$$ first and sort it out later when it comes to issues of their national security. In an area of the world where they have literally no friends and most are out to get them, they are a force to be reckoned with. In our country, there is so much darn whining about civil liberties and personal freedoms, it's no wonder there are so many security problems. We NEED to snap out of this, for our own self preservation. We NEED as a nation to understand that people are putting a lot of effort into finding ways to KILL US. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror, and remember that there are thousands of crazy terrorist muslims out there would love to slash you wide open if they could be standing there with you right now. They hate you, they hate me, and they hate everything about this country. Make you mad? I know it pi$$es me off. We need to toughen up. We need to be more like Israel, we need to be more like England during WWII, we need to stop whining and stick our freakin chests out and start dropping the hammer on these damn terrorists a$$holes, even if that means going to lengths we wouldn't think were nescessary before Sept 11.

Was that a right-wing tangent? I can barely tell anymore, I get so carried away. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thrash4life



Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:50 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

The simplest solution...and I`m suprised this hasn`t been done. The cabin of an airplane is pretty much a closed enviroment, so if a sleeping agent or knock-out gas was released into the cabin by the pilot in the event of a hostage or emergency situation, it would render everyone unconscious and resolve the situation. Armed pilots would not be a good thing and it just gives a terrorist access to one more weapon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Icarus



Joined: 26 Jan 2001
Posts: 1695
Location: where anger and euphoria collide

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:00 am    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Templar:
From now on, it needs to be understood by all the crew and passengers of a commercial aircraft that if a terrorist holds a blade to your throat and threatens to kill you, you are toast, because no way is everyone just going to sit by and let terrorists fly planes into skyscrapers any more. Better one dead than thousands.

Yes, sad but true. Unfortunately for $25,000 a year to be a flight attendent many may feel this job is not worth the risk. Maybe it's time to train the attendants as well as they would most likey be the first line of defence.

I have no problem with racial profiling. I have nothing to hide so basically I have nothing to lose. I think many people in America don't understand what to be "free" really means and the hard work that our forefathers went through to get to this point. When it comes to issues like racial profiling there's always the issue of a person's "constitutional rights", blah, blah, blah, etc. etc. That may be true, but in my mind, first and foremost is the security of the nation as a whole which in turn means preventing a breakdown in our government and any breech of security. And if this means accessing a persons bio and personal records on the basis of some type of suspician than by all means go for it. Beleive me the government has better things to do than to randomly start looking into the private lives of 250,000,000 American's.
In theory all the white folks in America are just as much of a threat as any arab's, Pakistani's or Afghani's because of Oklahoma City.

I could go on and on with this all day but by blood pressure is rising and the [b]Iced Earth[/b] disc just ended, which means I have more important things to worry about right now.
[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:34 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

I do have a problem with racial profiling. Racial profiling has never prevented one crime from being committed. I have no problem profiling by behavior,but when you start profiling by race,it does nothing but eat at personal freedoms.

Should we start interning Arab-Americans? Didn't we get into a mess by doing that to Japanese-Americans? Did we profile white males when the bombing in Oklahoma occurred?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:52 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

Here is another take on profiling,Is it profiling in south central L.A. when the whites are the minority in some areas of this county and when a cop pulls over 20 cars in one night and 16 were driven by a black?this cant be profiling in the same sense the media and the ACLU are trying to force down our throats,now what profiling is to me is you are a cop in a mostly white hood and you pull over 20 cars in a night and 16 were driven by blacks,can you see the difference?Like I said it is a known fact that terrorists are from a certain area of this world it happens to be by people with dark complexsions and reside in IRAQ,IRAN,SAUDI ARABIA,JORDAN,SYRIA,LIBYA all you have to do is look back at every terrorist bombing in the past 25 years and 99 out of a 100 WILL HAVE COME FROM THESE COUNTRIES.so there is obviously a pattern here right?well tell us how you would stop a terrorist in otherways than by a Arabic sounding name or from the list of terrorist backed countries.which the people from these countries do look a certain way,now do they? Its nice to always live in a pollyanna society and make excuses not to do the right thing,in protecting yourself this includes the anti-gun nuts, who are they to tell me I cant choose the type of gun to defend my life or another with? It is your right not to deal with guns ,not like guns I dont really care but try to see it in another light,than what the media tells us how guns are evil. whats evil is not being able to save your life with one because you may live in a state like new york or hawaii,that doesnt allow law abiding citizens to carry them,but fact is the criminals dont obey laws do they? They carry guns,use guns on helpless citizens who cant use their given right by our constitution no less,of pursueing life,liberty and happiness you cant be when a crook has you in his sights now do you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:53 pm    Post subject: U.S. Pilots and Guns, a bad idea. Reply with quote

sorry for the rant but I do feel better...whew [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HardRadio HardBoard Forum Index -> Free For All Forum All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group