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The Bible vs. Homosexuality
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Jim McCormick



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:29 am    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

I got this e-mail today, I thought you people would get a kick out of it. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

This is not in defense of homosexuality, but in condemnation of the
misuse of Scripture.

=========================
Homosexuality versus the Bible:

On her radio show recently, Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that, as an
observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to
Leviticus 18:22.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura in response which was
posted on the Internet. If you get upset when the Old Testament is
quoted in humor, perhaps you should stop here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend
the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22
clearly states it to be an abomination. I do need some advice from you,
however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow
them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my
neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite
them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus15:19-24). The problem is,
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male
and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians.
Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. In Exodus
35:2, it clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Leviticus 11:10) it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there
'degrees' of abomination?

7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even thought this is expressly forbidden by
Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He regularly violates Leviticus 19:19 by
planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by
wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them as instructed by Leviticus 24:10-16? Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with
people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.

Your adoring fan,
James M. Kauffman, Ed.D.
University of Virginia
=========================

See yez,
Paul
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live4metal



Joined: 12 Jul 2001
Posts: 1057
Location: El Segundo,CA.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

That's hilarious man!"Am I morally obligated to kill him myself". Yes,I think you are.
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Jim McCormick



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

Heres another funny one along the same line that my wife e-mailed me today. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

A Nun's Stroy

A cab driver picks up a nun. She gets into the cab where she soon
notices that the cab driver is staring at her.

She asks him why he is staring and he replies, "I have a question to
ask you but I don't want to offend you."

She answers: "My dear son, I have seen and heard just about everything.
I'm sure that there's nothing you could say or ask that would shock
me."

"Well, I've always had a fantasy to have nun kiss me."

She responds,"Well, that's not going to happen unless you are both
single and a Catholic."

The cab driver is very excited and says, "Yes, I am single and I'm
Catholic too!"

The nun says, "Very well, my son, pull into the next alley."

He does and the nun fulfills his fantasy giving him a tongue kissing
like he's never had.

When they get back on the road, the cab driver starts crying. "My dear
child." said the nun, "Why are you crying?"

"Forgive me sister, but I have sinned, I lied, I must confess, I'm
married and I'm a Baptist."

The nun says, "That's OK, I'm not really a nun. I'm on my way to a
Halloween party, and my name is Kevin."
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Jake



Joined: 02 Mar 1999
Posts: 4963

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:47 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

Man that's some pretty good stuff.

I find it hard when reading the bible not to get incredibly angry at God and his followers. God preaches all these things and people pick out the parts they like "homosexuality is abominable" [in my copy it words it differently- "Do not lie with another man- God hates that" yet they ignore other stuff. Considering God preaches peace and mercy and tells his own people to enslave and kill their enemies I don't think to highly of the bible's interpretation of God.

My favorite one in this guy's letter is his question about whether it is necessary to get the whole town together to stone someone to death, and could he not just burn them to death.

I still like the concept of a benevolent God who helps people out and guides them to order. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to make many appearances in the bible. Certainly not in the old testament. Yet if you hear a church sermon then he is played up as the greatest thing to ever happen. Funny, cause God himself says over and over in Leviticus that he is the Israelite God and not the God of foreigners. He even says that if an Israelite disobeys him then he will bring in the foreigners to conquer the rebel. Quite odd. And Israelites are Gods slaves. But no one thinks of themselves that humbly nowadays.

I guess that's why I'm not a Christian anymore. People tell me to look at the bible for advice, but all I see there is more hate. If you are defected [blind, disabled, crippled, have a skin disease] then you are to be shunned. WHAT? If yo have sex with a woman during her period [when she is ritually unclean] then you have committed an egregious sin and must be driven out and no longer considered one of God's people [or a similar punishment]. Love your neighbor but God will give you the power to conquer your enemies! [isn't this an oxymoron?]

I bitch too much.

If someone has a counter point to these apparent contradictions I'd like to hear it. Don't tell me God loves me, because I already know that. But he also will cast me out just as easily if I break any one of the parts of the covenant. Chances are I'm already gone... I didn't mean for it to be that way it's just the way I feel.
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Jim McCormick



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:39 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

Well, I just meant this thread for a few light hearted guffaws, but remember this Jake. The Bible is a book written by man as the word of God, so as with all other things man actually knows nothing about, but claims to, I take the Bible with a grain of salt. Goodness is in the heart, & if there is a deity(s) that overlord us I'm sure they know this to be true, at least I hope so. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Jake



Joined: 02 Mar 1999
Posts: 4963

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Jim McCormick:
I take the Bible with a grain of salt. Goodness is in the heart, & if there is a deity(s) that overlord us I'm sure they know this to be true, at least I hope so. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Yes that is the way I think of it as well. I definitely hope that our deity knows such things, as I am doomed otherwise. Probably everyone is doomed.
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Mijarra



Joined: 28 Nov 2000
Posts: 1564
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

Jake...not sure if this will help, but here I go:

I've posted more than once about how angry I get sometimes. Rage towards my fellow man has always been a problem for me, and I've always been a Catholic, wavering through various degrees of practice. Right now, I really don't go to church, but that doesn't mean I don't have beliefs. Anyway, I've been watching this guy named Joel Osteen on TV, he's usually on Sunday nights. He is not Cathlolic, he seems like he is possibly Baptist but I'm not sure. No matter, the guy makes a lot of sense. He doesn't beat you over the head with doctrine and fire and brimestone. Not that I don't think that stuff has it's place, but this Osteen guy relates things more to your every day life. He usually covers a topic, like last week it was about releiving stress in your daily life. I feel so much better, and much less like killing my fellow man after hearing him speak.

So, I figured if this was good, more would be better. I have read a lot of the Bible in my life...I went to a Catholic college... but now I've started reading the Bible every day at lunch. I thought I would feel peaceful and happy...but somehow I ended up feeling angrier than ever. So I was like "whah?" at first, but then I figured out a couple of things.

1) The Bible is not a peaceful or easy to understand book by nature. There is a lot of violence, a lot of nastiness, and a lot of really bizarre stuff. Not all lessons can be taught with peace, some have to go another route. Even the passages where Jesus is speaking are sometimes contridictory from Gospel to Gospel. It's enough to drive me batty. But I think that's good, because it means I'm thinking.

2) Once people know you are reading the Bible, they try to talk to you about it. Mostly, they try to preach to you. This pi$$es me off to no end. If people want to talk to me about it, that's fine, but give me facts not opinions. I will form my own opinions myself.

Both of these things brought me to the conclusion that the Bible only has value if you open your mind and let God speak to you rather than trying to look for things yourself. So, I guess the point I am making is, maybe you are looking too hard for things you aren't meant to find. For myself, I think God lets me see what I need to see. I just leave it up to that. The important thing is that I keep my eyes open.

So, take that for what it's worth, as it's been my experience.
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Jim McCormick



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

As I said, the Bible is made for people by people to conform them to a way of life, no more, no less. There is not a single shread of proof that it is truly gods word, even if there is a god? It's called faith, & by definition it is a belief, not truth as a fact, for know one really knows, there is no real proof. I want to think we all live on, but we have to look at it realisticly, there is no promisses, only what somebody else dictates to you & if you except that. I was lucky enough not to be forced into religion as many people are, it was really liberating. All you can do is be kind, thats my best advice.
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Jake



Joined: 02 Mar 1999
Posts: 4963

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: The Bible vs. Homosexuality Reply with quote

I was not forced into a religion either. I took it up at one point on my own and then put it back down at another point [though not fully as I still pray to God], basically because I felt my faith was not strong enough to warrant calling myself a Christian anymore.

Those times when I feel like I may have more faith, I go back to what is supposed to be the center of it- the Bible. But then it just makes me confused with it's contradictions and sometimes even angry. So my plan is really just to live my own way and not care about the Bible. If God is good as is said then he would cut us all some slack as we all have our reasons for doing things, even if that reasoning may not be sound to someone else.

Mijarra, thanks for that recommendation maybe I'll look that fellow up. I usually am also angered by most of those television preachers. They [and my friend] will say many of the contradictory things that the Bible does- inclusion of everyone, but then writing off certain types of people because of one thing or the other. Who do they think they are to judge such things? If this Joel Osteen is above such that then I will give him a chance at some point. Some religious discussions can be interesting.
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