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Erasing history
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POWERMETAL&AOR



Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 485
Location: West Coast

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:56 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

[QUOTE]Originally posted by General Zod:
[B]I am partially going to agree with Lars37. I don't think Nirvana killed metal, only MTV Metal. And that sub-genre was dying a slow and painful death anyway. Not because it was all necessarily bad, but as Lars37 correctly pointed out, it had become a parody of itself."

How?? Explain..

" However, I wouldn't want to erase Aerosmith's influence from rock. They clearly had a huge influence on a lot of great bands (Motley Crue and Guns-n-Roses come to mind). Although, let's not kid ourselves, Aerosmith have recently sold their musical souls."

I disagree - Just Push Play is a great album full of awesome classic 'Smith hooks.

"By the way, I'm not sure how anyone could ever put Poison and Tesla in the same sentence (musically). Could these two bands possibly be any more disimilar?"

Well , they both are Hard Rock bands. I think they sound different but the majority of chumps (like Lars) just lump all those 80s bands in the same category. Pathetic really.

" Does anyone who has seen Tesla live, think these guys would even know how to apply hair spray, much less mascara?"

Who cares? Music is Music man - i could give a shit about image. But these 90s kids ONLY look at image.

"If it's OK with Tyranno, I'm going to come at this from a different angle. MTV has damaged music more than any one band could ever hope to. While crap music existed before MTV, MTV made it OK to sound bad, so long as you looked good. Music, with the exception of concerts, is not supposed to be a visual medium. And consequently, MTV has forced bands to spend too much time concerned with the visual."

I agree.

" White Lion is a perfect example of this. They wrote some good songs, and Vito could play his ass off. But does anyone honestly think that Mike Tramp could have fronted a band if he didn't have the look that he does?"

Yeh - he's a very decent , UNIQUE vocalist and White Lion was a GREAT band.
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POWERMETAL&AOR



Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 485
Location: West Coast

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:03 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

I find it hilarious how many of you board members here rag on 80s hard rock and yet it was MUCH MORE vibrant and TALENTED then anything in the mainstream since 1992.

You guys have really been brainwashed and its pretty laughable. All you look at is image and if there's a smidgeon of hairspray then a band sucks

WELL HERE'S A F.UCKING WAKE UP CALL - Here's bands that YOU consider Hair Metal:

Loudness
Megadeth
Queensryche
Judas Priest
Ozzy Osbourne
Dio
Dokken
WASP
Death ANgel
Guns N Roses
Kreator
Malice
Exodus
Anthrax
OverKill
Annihilator
Testament
Destruction

+ hundreds more THRASH bands.

According to your STUPID definition of HAIR metal then those bands would SUCK.

IDIOTS.
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Paul G



Joined: 05 Jan 1999
Posts: 860
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:23 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

Simply put VIDEO killed the radio star, image did become more important than the art it was promoting. MTV was responsible for creating massive popularity for the following
genres.

1- mid to late 80's mall metal - Def Leppard (Hysteria) - Bon Jovi - Cinderalla - Poison -Motley Crue - and a slew of others made it based on heavy promo from MTV, the latter part of the 80's featured more from MR.Big, White Lion, Extreme, Slaughter, Enuff'Z'Nuff etc.. etc... all pushing the same look, moves, style, image and the dreaded power ballad. Once in a while is OK, what killed em was the flood of this material clogging the airwaves, younger fans started looking for something different...(1985-1991)

2- That was Nirvana and Seattle, musicians tend to hate these bands, they were the antithesis of the LA party/drugs/sex scene, the Seattle bands had something to say and it wasn't pretty. Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots were the forerunners and like #1 a flood of wannabees soon followed, overexposure ie: parody kicked in soon thereafter. (1991-1997)

3- RAP - no comment this stuff is not going away.

4- KORN - a new beast is born their first disc was released in 1994, it caused quite a stir then as it was fresh/innovative/different and heavy, they would hit the commercial bullseye with Follow the Leader in 1998. NU-Metal is the new MTV darling, the market is now flooded with this stuff, a few bands might survive out of this genre for the longterm we'll see.
(1998 to 20--)

MTV treats music as defined product by genre and they will milk it for roughly 5-6 years and then move on to something else that seems to be their pattern to date.

For the most part I DETEST video, it eliminates the mystery of seeing a band and it can easily create video stars which doesn't necessarily equate to good music. It should be ones 'ears' which dictate what is good or not, not million dollar concept videos or T
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Paul G



Joined: 05 Jan 1999
Posts: 860
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:56 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

____________________________________________
I find it hilarious how many of you board members here rag on 80s hard rock and yet it was MUCH MORE vibrant and TALENTED then anything in the mainstream since 1992.
--------------------------------------------

I don't think anyone here is disputing playing ability and talent.

____________________________________________
You guys have really been brainwashed and its pretty laughable. All you look at is image and if there's a smidgeon of hairspray then a band sucks
--------------------------------------------

Can you honestly say that image WASN'T important to most of the late 80's hard rock scene, you can see? right. tons of bands all looking like Bon Jovi, it became a parody, all of them guilty of writing 2-3 MTV style ballads per disc. It doesn't mean that the music was bad but when you flood the market with the same stuff "the masses" will get sick of it regardless of TALENT.

WELL HERE'S A F.UCKING WAKE UP CALL - Here's bands that YOU consider Hair Metal:
==========================================
Hair metal equals late 80's Hard Rock

I don't think anyone on this board would consider these bands as part of that late 80's hard rock scene.

Loudness - NO never received much if any MTV play

Megadeth - straight forward metal, lumped in with Metallica, Pantera, Slayer, Anthrax - they were NEVER considered hair metal

Queensryche - prog metal, grouped with the likes of Rush

Judas Priest - early 80's diff era, they were toast after Turbo and they were metal.

Ozzy Osbourne - nope transcends all genres he's been around far too long.

Dio - NOPE not part of the MTV argument his arena touring days were done after the massive SAcred Heart tour.

Dokken - definately part of that mid 80's--> MTV hard rock scene

WASP - no comment - I despise them fake/fake/fake

Death ANgel - metal thru and thru

Guns N Roses - definately part of the above, the epitomy of the decadent LA R&R lifestyle.

Kreator - yeah right
Malice - yeah right
Exodus - thrash file with Slayer
Anthrax - same as above
OverKill - ditto
Annihilator - ditto
Testament - ditto
Destruction - ditto

+ hundreds more THRASH bands.

According to your STUPID definition of HAIR metal then those bands would SUCK

- You know damn well which bands were considered HAIR METAL, most people here also know the difference.
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JGunnz1



Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 896
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:57 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

quote[quote] WELL HERE'S A F.UCKING WAKE UP CALL - Here's bands that YOU consider Hair Metal [/quote]

I like every one of the bands on that list, I don't remember anyone calling them hairmetal, but even if they were I could care less. Is "hair metal" supposed to be a bad thing?
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POWERMETAL&AOR



Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 485
Location: West Coast

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 6:10 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

Well according to the majority of people's ridiculous definition of 'hair metal' then ALL of the above bands would be considered HAIR METAL.

Big hair , spandex etc... THEY ALL did it.

So now the term 'HAIR METAL' is 'selective'???

BWAHAHHAHHA

People - make up your f.ucking minds. If you are gonna use a brainwashed media trendoid term like 'HAIR METAL' then use it correctly.

And Gunnz - i don't have a problem with any of those bands either - i like them all but call a spade a spade. If you're gonna call White Lion 'hair metal' then you HAVE to call bands like Megadeth and Queensryche 'Hair Metal' too.
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Paul G



Joined: 05 Jan 1999
Posts: 860
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 6:57 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

C'mon Power now you're being silly...

Here's a list of what fell into that genre termed "HAIR METAL" - late 80's hard rock

Bon Jovi - prototype for the look & sound
Def Leppard
Extreme
Mr.Big
Enuff'z'Nuff
Lillian Axe
White Lion
Steelheart
Guns'n'Roses
Motley CRue
Poison
Cinderalla
Slaughter
Winger
Skid Row (first disc only)
Trixter
Faster Pussycat
Tyketto
Danger Danger
Firehouse

This is the stuff that was clogging MTV at the time.
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PaulEMoz



Joined: 24 Oct 2000
Posts: 843
Location: Newcastle, England...now in Detroit, MI, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 7:13 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Paul G:
[b] Def Leppard (Hysteria) - Bon Jovi - Cinderalla - Poison -Motley Crue - and a slew of others made it based on heavy promo from MTV, the latter part of the 80's featured more from MR.Big, White Lion, Extreme, Slaughter, Enuff'Z'Nuff etc.. etc... all pushing the same look, moves, style, image and the dreaded power ballad. [/b]


I would tend to partially disagree with this....maybe it's true in America, but in other places these bands were making it down to radio play, and the fact that they were better than anything else available. In England, for instance, MTV was (and still is) only available on satellite television, and before 1990 I would say considerably less than 5% of the English population had satellite television. These bands were just going a step further into hard rock, which was already popular anyway. Extreme were somewhat unlucky that everyone picked up on More Than Words....some of their other stuff was considerably "rockier" (I personally loved Get The Funk Out at the time, great guitar solo!).

I would pretty much agree with the rest of the post though.
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Starbreaker



Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 385
Location: BFI

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2001 7:14 pm    Post subject: Erasing history Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Paul G:
[b]...musicians tend to hate these bands...[/b]


wonder why that is, huh?? Perhaps because they can't play???

On the other hand, [b]FAILED[/b] muscicians [read as 'critics, and those who listen to them'] tend to think highly of these dork-ass lamesters.

Personally they remind me of the guys who hung out in the AV room, back in HS...you know the ones that ended up in the trash can??

Perhaps an analogy will help to understand the way some of us feel, when someone declares that Nerdvana, was good for rock 'n' roll, because it 'killed' the evil hair metal.

Imagine this: Floating in your toilet, is a quantity of paper money. There are $1 bills (Poison, Warrant, etc.--not GREAT, IMO, but still of value, especially in respect to my forthcoming comparison), there are $5 bills (GnR, Motley, WASP), $10s, ('ryche, Dokken, Fates Warning) and there are $100s (Judas Priest, Maiden, etc.)

Richard Simmons (I had to think of someone annoying --Nirvana) comes into your house and flushes the toilet, then fills it with extremely stinky turds (Silverchair, Days of the New, Hole, etc.), stays, and doesn't flush it.

Wouldn't this annoy you???

Just because you may not have liked, the 'poofy' bands, forsaking all of the 80s material, for something WORSE than any of them, just doesn't make any sense, in my eyes. If only for the sake of the harm done to 'real' metal bands, the grunge thing was a calamity. Like taking cyanide for a headache.

As for the question originally posed by TR, I pick the first guy that got a recording contract, by singing like that guy in Morbid Angel...
(BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!blood!!!, Death!!!!, Torture!!!!, Satan!!!,BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!)

-Marty
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