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Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed??
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Mijarra



Joined: 28 Nov 2000
Posts: 1564
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 8:39 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

Hmmm. I was going to include this in the Pantera post but I thought I would post a new topic just to make myself feel important. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] In searching for the answer of Scorchins Lord Tracy question, I happened upon an old picture of Pantera from their early days when they were all glammed out. Whoa! They seem very strange, but I guess only by comparison to their present image. Clearly they didn't find such huge success until they adopted a harder edge, and they seem to get harder and harder as the metal scene gets more hardcore. Specifically, I'm talking about their image being harder. I have a real pet peeve about people saying todays music is harder just b/c bands tune to C# and don't play solos, but that's another post altogether.

People talk sometimes about bands "selling out"...Metallica sold out, Queensryche sold out, Megadeth, whatever. So the question(s) on the table is this:

1) Did Pantera sell out to their true selves in the early '80s by adopting a glam image just to (hopefully) be successful?
2) Did Pantera sell out to their true selves in the early '90s by adopting a hardcore image just to be successful?
<or>
3) Did Pantera just do what it took to succeed, or perhaps had an honest change of heart about their musical tastes, and that's totally acceptable?

I'm just using Pantera as an example here, hopefully to start a discussion on the direction of an up and coming band rather than debating Pantera themselves. I'm sure people could think of other examples. I can think of a local band that used to be glam but sorta realized it wasn't working a while back. They retooled their image and music to be much more edgy and heavy and now they get a lot more gigs. Sell out, or a wise business decision?

Opinions?
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Desslar



Joined: 11 Jul 2001
Posts: 776
Location: Bloomington, IN

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:08 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Mijarra:


Opinions?

I'd say Pantera rolled with the punches and did what they thought they had to to keep ahead of the curve. I'd also say I thought they were a lot better before their mid-90s makeover. Give me power metal any day.

I'd say you're only really selling out if you end up doing something you really don't want to do in order to make a buck. Pantera may have been perfectly at home with both images and musical styles. Who knows?
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nuclear_x



Joined: 19 Feb 2000
Posts: 603
Location: portland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:21 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

I think they duped the record execs how else why such a departure after cowboys....
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Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:14 am    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

I wouldn't really say they sold out by changing their image from glam to its current self. But I would call them sellouts for trying to deny their earlier form. You can't start a thread about Pantera without someone telling a story of them being at a concert and Phil saying "this is a song from our first album, 'Cowboys from Hell'...."
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Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 1:18 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

I'm with Raider on this one. The sound and image switch was actually a considerably bigger risk than staying the same would've been - remember, this was 1990 - probably 1989 when they made the change - and this kind of thing wasn't in its grave yet. Wasn't even slowing down yet.
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JGunnz1



Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 896
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:00 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

I am going to go with option #3.
Pantera is one of the few bands that were able to not only develop their own sound,but define a genre. When you hear a Pantera song, you know what it is within three seconds WITHOUT hearing any vocals. I think that in order for that to happen, you have to be true to yourselves as a band. If they were simply copying what was cool at the time, they would have sounded like an amalgam of many thrash style bands. I think that in the early days, they were simply finding themselves and they started out sounding like the popular metal of the time, with no clear sound of their own. As they matured, their own style emerged and the Pantera we all know was born.
IMO, they have yet to sell out. Like them or not.
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HardRocker
Site Admin


Joined: 06 Nov 1998
Posts: 1760
Location: Dallas, TX.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:50 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

Pantera did the usual climb up the ladder routine, and stuck in there when the going got rough. Way back in the early 80's in San Antonio I was playing their original stuff on-air, even though Pantera were a frequent club band in the area playing cover tunes (mostly at the old Rocky's). They went through the obligatory personell changes like every band, and I would say it was more of a Phil influenced progression to their now signature sound.
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General Zod



Joined: 24 Jan 2001
Posts: 2519
Location: Krypton

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 5:05 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Mijarra:
People talk sometimes about bands "selling out"...Metallica sold out, Queensryche sold out, Megadeth, whatever.

For what it's worth, I don't think Queensryche ever sold out. I think they began to suck, which is completely different. If it was Queensryche's intention to "sell-out", they would have never released a CD that sounded like "Promise Land" on the heels of the commercially sucessfull "Empire". They even went so far as to say before the release of "Promised Land" that they didn't care for their newfound sucess, and thought that their new CD would end up driving away a lot of their newer fans. Queensryche has always said that they would evolve from disc to disc, and that is just what they have done. Although, what they call "evolution" I just so happen to call "turning to crap".

GZ
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Templar



Joined: 17 Oct 1999
Posts: 592
Location: the planet of the apes

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:26 pm    Post subject: Selling out...or doing what it takes to succeed?? Reply with quote

About Pantera: What Raider said.

About Queensryche: What General Zod said.

I'd say Metallica is the only band that's been mentioned here who completely sold out, and not just because their style changed. A band can change its style without selling its soul and insulting its old fans (even if it loses those old fans along the way). Metallica did it all, though, and not just to "suceed" either -- they did it to become filthy, stinking rich, whatever it took. I don't just blame them for wanting to make money. I don't consider KISS to be sellouts, for example, because they've ALWAYS said they were in it for the fun, the women and the money -- and say what you will about them, they give their fans what they want, and make no apologies for being rich. They never presented themselves as artists with integrity, fighting the system -- they presented themselves as entertainers [i]using[/i] the system. Metallica, however, presented themselves as outsiders who didn't care anything about fame or money -- then, when they got it, wallowed in it like pigs in a feeding trough.
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