HardRadio.com Main Page

HardRadio HardBoard
The Heavy Metal Supersite
 
    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Alright, I am labeling again...

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HardRadio HardBoard Forum Index -> Artist Discussion
Digg it Stumble it Submit to Del.icio.us Reddit it Slashdot it  
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ogre



Joined: 06 Nov 2000
Posts: 425
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:36 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

In my on-going quest to check out new metal bands and genres, I have a couple of questions:

What exactly is "black metal" and how would you rate Immortal's _Sons of Northern Darkness_?

How would you contrast say, 90's Manowar and Megadeth, with black metal? I ask the question this way because I suspect I can better understand your answer this way.

In case 80'sAl is reading: Yes, I am considering purchasing this album because the band dresses up like KISS.

Also, is black metal generally "satanic" in nature (in terms of lyrical content)? That is my current understanding, but I have read that SOND has a Medieval flavor rather than a satanic orientation. While I am open-minded enough to realize that lyrics aggrandizing Satan and such are "just words" and it is the "right" of those who enjoy such to have access to it, I don't particularly want to listen to it personally, nor do I want to support artists who merchandise that position. Not preaching, just explaining why I ask the question. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I appreciate your help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tyrannorabbit



Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 3985
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by Ogre:
In my on-going quest to check out new metal bands and genres, I have a couple of questions:

What exactly is "black metal" and how would you rate Immortal's _Sons of Northern Darkness_?

How would you contrast say, 90's Manowar and Megadeth, with black metal? I ask the question this way because I suspect I can better understand your answer this way.

In case 80'sAl is reading: Yes, I am considering purchasing this album because the band dresses up like KISS.

Also, is black metal generally "satanic" in nature (in terms of lyrical content)? That is my current understanding, but I have read that SOND has a Medieval flavor rather than a satanic orientation. While I am open-minded enough to realize that lyrics aggrandizing Satan and such are "just words" and it is the "right" of those who enjoy such to have access to it, I don't particularly want to listen to it personally, nor do I want to support artists who merchandise that position. Not preaching, just explaining why I ask the question. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I appreciate your help!

Like no other metal subgenre before it, black metal has the rather unfortunate distinction of having inspired many people to write extremely lengthy (and subjective) essays about what does and doesn't qualify.

While "black metal" I think is tedious and pointless to try to define (might as well try defining "true metal" while we're at it), there are a lot of elements to it which I think are unmistakeably bm even when turning up in another kind of metal - for example, the riffing style, which is basically right-hand tremolo picking (i.e. picking as fast as you can) riffs and melodies which might otherwise be considered midpaced.

90's Manowar and Megadeth have no black metal ingredients at all, that I can tell. _Sons Of Northern Darkness_ has a fair bit of it, though. (great, great album btw)

As for lyrics, bm bands have gone through some phases - most of them started out with Satanic imagery, some more pronounced than others (with Immortal, it was never that pronounced - I think they mention Satan once on their seven albums). They often move on to pagan/Viking themes, medieval themes, or in some cases, white-power-type Nazi themes. Hilariously, these latter bands tend to come from places like Poland and the Ukraine.

In conclusion, ask Raider. Or, ask Totenkopf, if you want to slug through one of those extremely lengthy essays.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:31 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

I really like _Sons of Northern Darkness_, but don't expect anything even REMOTELY similar to KISS. Also, Immortal having been throwing in lots of elements of other genres into their stuff lately, so while it's a very good album, it's not really indicative of black metal.

As far as lyrics, some black metal bands have satanic lyrics, but then again, so do some death metal, thrash metal, and even traditional metal bands. But it isn't a guaranteed thing. As I like to say, there are more overt satanic messages on the cover of Dio's _Holy Diver_ than can be found anywhere in the lyrics on Emperor's _Anthems to Welking at Dusk_, which is one of my personal fave BM albums.

As far as what exactly it sounds like, that's kinda hard to nail, because like any genre, there are many sub-styles within. I'm at the point now where I can tell a Norwegian/Swedish band from an American band from a Polish band, because for the most part these different scenes have their unique styles, and that's just on the bands trying to play the "traditional" style BM. But one thing they all have in common is that none of them sound even REMOTELY like KISS, so once again if it's the face paint making you want to check it out, you need to be careful.

The more "traditional" style black metal is based largely on Bathory, Venom, and Hellhammer (which was basically Celtic Frost under a different name). It's extreme, but not really heavy, if you follow. I know this is probably confusing, but I can't think of a much better way to describe it.

Some bands like to throw a lot of keyboards into the mix. When done right this can be great (early Emperor), but a lot of bands tend to overdo it, and I'm sure you've had experience in other genres to know what happens when too many keys are thrown in. This style with lots of keyboards got real popular in the late '90s.

And lately there has been a new style popping up that throws in a few elements of industrial into the black metal mix. It's actually pretty good. Myrskog and Zyklon (which has members of Emperor in it) are both good.

I know a lot of that was probably confusing, but it's the best I could do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:46 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

I've always understood the term "black metal" to simply either be a synonym for death metal(according to Mark Hale's book Headbangers:The Worldwide Megabook Of Heavy Metal Bands) or merely a term that described Satanic lyrical themes(black metal=satanic,white metal=Christian lyrics).

Totenkopf posted a link to a page that gave a thorough explanation of what black metal is(which I disagreed with). I'll see if I can find it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iwarrior



Joined: 05 Apr 2002
Posts: 3526
Location: Pittsburgh,PA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:49 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

Here's a link to the "Black Metal FAQ" that Totenkopf posted some time ago.

[url=http://raging-metal.d2g.com/columns/tfnw/0003.html]http://raging- metal.d2g.com/columns/tfnw/0003.html[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Raider



Joined: 12 Aug 1999
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:05 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

No, for the most part black metal and death metal are very distinctive musically. There are of course plenty of bands that combine elements of the two (newer Immortal releases, for example), but the "traditional" black metal style is nothing like death metal. For one thing, death metal tends to be very heavy. Many black metal bands aren't really that heavy. Extreme, but not heavy. Then again, some bm bands are heavy (especially American ones, they have more of a tendency to be heavy than most European bands for some reason).

But as far as lyrics, that really isn't a good judging factor either, because not all bm bands use the same kind of lyrics. Sure, some of them use satanic lyrics, but not all. And like I said earlier, plenty of death metal bands use satanic lyrics, as do lots of thrash and even traditional metal bands.

I think Tyranno said it best. It's its own style, and trying to define it can be very frustrating, just like trying to define "true metal". The best thing is just to listen to some of it, and then you get a feel for what it is. But for someone who doesn't have a clue whether or not they will like it, it's probably best to start out of MP3s.

But interestingly enough, whether or not you like death metal is not a good indicator of whether you will like black metal or not. I know plenty of people who only like one or the other, but not both. So it kinda gets back to my earlier point, you really just have to listen and see.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wyvern



Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 2214
Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:42 pm    Post subject: Alright, I am labeling again... Reply with quote

Like TR said you can go for ever on this topic, what I know (besides I don't like Black Metal as it is today) is that is based on repetitive combiantions of percussion and synthetizers, the voices acute and/or raw with grunts included, the atmosphere is always oppressive and dark, the lyrics usually against Judeo-Christian beliefs (not necesarily pro-Satan, as either the Fallen One, the Horned Beast, Bin-Laden or whatever), the logo of the bands are usually complicated designs (with weird fonts, thorns, etc), and most of the bands like to paint themselves looking like panda bears (or corpses I guess), and full of black cloting and spikes.
The people which are not in rock, will call Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, Slayer, Morbid Angel, Tiamat: "black". Celtic Frost(and its ancestors Hellhammer), were considered Black metal in essence, maybe if not totally musically the way it is now.
Anyway what is "White Metal", Christian rock? Positive music (what is positive anyway)? From that point of view, Helloween 'Save Us' or 'Laudate Dominum' are white metal, and so it will be Black Sabbath 'Children Of The Grave' or 'Wishing Well'.
The bottom line: tags are always a mess (that's why I try to avoid them [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ), and hear what you like, independently of what people name what you hear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HardRadio HardBoard Forum Index -> Artist Discussion All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group