BN: I do remember back then it was so competitive and there was so much jealousy among musicians, especially guitar players. And the critics back then from the old rock magazines like Creem, Circus, and even Rolling Stone, were really harsh on bands and you can tell they were really full of themselves and had this superiority complex.

FM: But while that's going down on a critical level, on the fan level it was completely the opposite. I had thousands and thousands of followers who just loved the music, so there was this dichotomy between what the fans like and what the critics are writing which makes the critics even hate you more.

BN: I remember in the late '70s deejays and journalists thought they could single-handedly control the music business. But nowadays you have these huge corporations and conglomerates like Viacom and Clear Channel who not only control the entertainment business but they brainwash the American public and force-feed them a bunch of crap...it's gotten ridiculously out of control. But when it comes down to it, [at least on an underground level] the fans would always prevail. Look at all the criticism Black Sabbath had received back then, they never got radio play or a good review in America yet they sold millions of records and sold-out arenas and stadiums all over the world.

FM: The difference with us is we rarely got radio play or a good review, but God knows if we sold millions of records [laughs]. I think we must have sold millions of records since we were headlining shows in front of 20,000 people but all we were getting was $150 bucks a week. It's a sad testament to the industry but that's the industry we joined and that's the way it worked. Today I don't really have regrets about it, I actually never did...I never look back. People often ask me, 'why don't you investigate and find out how many records you had sold in the past?' And I don't really care to find out. It's not like I'm going to get anything back, it's like trying to get years back on your life.

BN: I've always felt that success in music isn't determined by how much money an artist makes, to me it's all about the longevity. Even underground artists as yourself, as well as Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin...those are bands with longevity. I would rather be an artist that never had a hit record but would be remembered for years to come rather than to be some one-hit-wonder that made millions of dollars from a radio hit but now tossed into the 'where are they now?' category and blew all there money away.

FM: It's really sad to see that. That's why when I quit in '93 I didn't even really have a goodbye tour, I just went home and that was the end of it. And I was perfectly willing to stay out of the business forever.

BN: Well, I for one am glad that you're back. And I'm sure millions of fans would agree...it's good to have you back, Frank!

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